The Geek Crew - Seriously, Get Off My Lawn

X Post Whore FTP Server Offline Truth Is Treason, In The Empire Of Lies Posts: 3903 Gender:	Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn Reply #90 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 8:02am I may have partially answered my own question: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28tqivtw453edwuk45ym1gdm3f%29%29/mileg.aspx?p... For the purpose of my question above, I'm talking about NOT being in a vehicle.
Back to top	In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. - Max Payne IP Logged

b0b

GeekCrew Administrator
FTP Server

Offline

The revolution will not
be televised.

Posts: 7464
Battle Creek, Michigan
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #91 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 8:12am

X wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 6:55am:

If I am open carrying, am I legally obligated to show my CPL AND my drivers ID?

The way the law is written, you must notify the officer any time you're stopped if you're carrying a pistol, regardless of where/how you're carrying.

You are only obligated to carry your CPL card when you're carrying concealed. Keep in mind that getting into a vehicle in Michigan with a firearm that isn't properly stored constitutes "concealed carry."

Quote:

If I'm concealed carrying, do I have to always have my driver's ID on me?

Yes. You must provide both your CPL and your driver's license upon request. On a side not, there was a court case awhile back in which a judge ruled that furnishing your CPL to an officer doesn't constitute "immediate disclosure," so make sure you verbally inform the officer the moment they make contact with you.

-b0b
(...is not a lawyer.)

Back to top

IP Logged

Stick Wootzor von Leetenhaxor FTP Server Offline Stick is back Posts: 501 Michgan Gender:	Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn Reply #92 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 3:00pm I thought you didn't have to show any identification if you are stopped walking while open carrying because you haven't broken any laws. Is it possible to open carry in a vehicle? What is the most accessible/shoot-ready way to open carry an assault rifle?
Back to top	IP Logged

b0b

GeekCrew Administrator
FTP Server

Offline

The revolution will not
be televised.

Posts: 7464
Battle Creek, Michigan
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #93 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 3:30pm

Stick wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 3:00pm:

I thought you didn't have to show any identification if you are stopped walking while open carrying because you haven't broken any laws.

Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada requires you to identify yourself during a "police investigation". You do not have to produce ID. This is a general requirement and is wholly separate from a CCW issue.

Open carry is a huge bag of worms these days. I am constantly seeing reports of people being arrested for "disturbing the peace" or some other ridiculous charge. Although I don't personally carry openly in public (OpSec and all that), I'd love to see open carry rights affirmed throughout the country.

Quote:

Is it possible to open carry in a vehicle?

Not in Michigan. In most states, anything that constitutes open carry on the street would be just fine in a vehicle. In Michigan, if the firearm isn't properly secured for transport (e.g. in a locked container with ammo separated), it is considered concealed.

Quote:

What is the most accessible/shoot-ready way to open carry an assault rifle?

Tactical sling, round in the chamber, safety off? I'm not aware of any requirements for the condition of the rifle itself, so long as you're not openly menacing/threatening people.

That said, you're going to get an awful lot of attention walking down Main Street with your rifle, let along in "condition one".

-b0b
(...needs to open carry a Barrett some day.)

Back to top

IP Logged

X

Post Whore
FTP Server

Offline

Truth Is Treason, In The
Empire Of Lies

Posts: 3903
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #94 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 4:01pm

Well now, check out this MSP Legal Update 86 - http://miopencarry.org/sites/default/files/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pd...

The very last page, last column.

I might carry this around if I open carry.

Also, Hibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada is only for states that have "stop-and-identify" laws which MI does not.

"Nevada had a stop and identify law, which was used to convict him. The Supreme Court determined that these laws are constitutional, so long as they require officers to have reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

X

Back to top

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. - Max Payne

IP Logged

Stick

Wootzor von Leetenhaxor
FTP Server

Offline

Stick is back

Posts: 501
Michgan
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #95 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 4:24pm

Quote:

Not in Michigan. In most states, anything that constitutes open carry on the street would be just fine in a vehicle. In Michigan, if the firearm isn't properly secured for transport (e.g. in a locked container with ammo separated), it is considered concealed.

Oh, that's right. Michigan is pretty strict about transporting. I was in Colorado prairie dog hunting/killing with the ar-15's in the truck ready to shoot, driving from field to field, then pointing it out the window and shooting at them. It was so much fun.

Back to top

IP Logged

The_Fat_Man Wootzor von Leetenhaxor FTP Server Offline Grand High Overlard Posts: 910 Colorado Springs, Colorado Gender:	Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn Reply #96 - Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 6:44pm You came to Colorado and didn't hit me up Stick? Shame on you
Back to top	IP Logged

b0b

GeekCrew Administrator
FTP Server

Offline

The revolution will not
be televised.

Posts: 7464
Battle Creek, Michigan
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #97 - May 1^st, 2012 at 4:12pm

Too much talk, not enough gun pr0n!

I've been participating in the Kalamazoo chapter of the Friends of the NRA for several months now, and Meredith and I volunteered at their annual banquet (their biggest annual fundraiser) on Thursday evening. The Friends of the NRA is a charity that is attached to the NRA. They raise funds for firearms-related programs for kids (e.g. hunter safety, firearms safety, 4H and Boy Scout shooting programs), women (personal safety, CCW, defense in the home, etc) and a variety of shooting sports and conservation programs.

At the end of the banquet, I ended up winning the door prize. I scored a Weatherby SA-08 semi-automatic shotgun chambered in 12 gauge. I had a chance to shoot it on Sunday and it proved to be a very capable firearm. It loaded smoothly and I didn't run into a single hiccup. The operation is a bit different than other semi-automatic shotguns I've fired, so it'll take a little while to get used to the controls.

Since I can't get a decent picture to save my life, here's a stock photo:

The downside to the SA-08 is that it's not a terribly common firearm, so there are absolutely no third-party products available and virtually no accessories available direct from the factory. I'd like to add a magazine extension, but I'd have to do some serious Dremel work to get a proper fit from an extension manufactured for a totally different gun. I'd also like to get a shorter barrel (22 to 24" instead of 28"), but nobody makes them, so I'd have to pay a gunsmith to cut the factory barrel down.

Either way, it was free, so I'm certainly not complaining. It's a fun gun to shoot and I look forward to using it for clays.

-b0b
(...w00t!)

Back to top

IP Logged

X Post Whore FTP Server Offline Truth Is Treason, In The Empire Of Lies Posts: 3903 Gender:	Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn Reply #98 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 7:23am That's awesome! Only the NRA would give out a shotgun as a door prize! Good job. X
Back to top	In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. - Max Payne IP Logged

b0b

GeekCrew Administrator
FTP Server

Offline

The revolution will not
be televised.

Posts: 7464
Battle Creek, Michigan
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #99 - May 2^nd, 2012 at 7:04pm

Quote:

Michigan House Committee to Consider Repeal of Handgun Permit-to-Purchase and Registration

The Michigan House Judiciary Committee will have a hearing on Thursday, May 17, to review an important and long-overdue bill that would eliminate the state handgun “permit-to-purchase” and registration requirements. This committee will hear House Bill 5225 and consider this proposed amendment language that will be used as a substitute for HB 5225 when this hearing takes place.

HB 5225, introduced by state Representative Paul Opsommer (R-93), would abolish the bureaucratic “permit-to-purchase” handguns which became obsolete when the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) went into effect in 1998. Under the current state system, gun buyers must apply with their local law enforcement agency and pass a written test before being authorized to buy a handgun. This “permit” is valid for only one gun and it expires after ten days. Since 1998, federal law has required a national criminal records check for the purchase of any firearm from any gun dealer in every state. Some of the key points of the proposed amendment to HB 5225 are:

• Repeal the state requirement for someone to ask for police permission to purchase a firearm by traveling to a local police station and obtaining a permit to purchase.

• Repeal the requirement to register a completely legally purchased and owned firearm by a law-abiding citizen to be registered with the government through the police.

• Adopt the use of the federally-funded National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

• Default to the federal standard of prohibited persons and each purchase would still require a background check.

• Cut Michigan’s costs by using the federally-administered instant background check system and eliminate wasted man-hours of tracking lawful gun owners in Michigan.

The NRA has been working diligently to repeal this antiquated, costly and unnecessary obstacle for gun owners and has coordinated with several state Representatives to produce new language for HB 5225.

This is the fantastic news, and I hope the NRA can get the support it needs to pass this bill! Even with a CCW license, I still have to register my pistols with the state, and that's absurd.

-b0b
(...at least the "safety inspection" is no longer required.)

Back to top

IP Logged

pezmasterelite GeekCrew n00b Offline The Geek Crew Posts: 38 The Zoo Gender:	Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn Reply #100 - Dec 15^th, 2012 at 9:15am Hey, Did you guys see that HB 5225 was enrolled, we still may be able to get rid of the ptp. pez
Back to top	IP Logged

b0b

GeekCrew Administrator
FTP Server

Offline

The revolution will not
be televised.

Posts: 7464
Battle Creek, Michigan
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #101 - Dec 15^th, 2012 at 11:48am

I've been watching it pretty closely. With a CCW permit, I don't need the purchase permit, but I still have to register the purchase with the Michigan State Police. That irks me. Sadly, this bill doesn't help in that regard.

Based on the last Senate version of the bill (I can't find the enrolled version yet), it appears the following changes are being made:

You don't need a purchase permit to buy a pistol from an FFL (e.g. anybody that sells guns as a business). You still need a purchase permit to make a face-to-face purchase (e.g. from another individual that isn't an FFL).
If you buy from an FFL, they'll give you two copies of the purchase record. You get to keep one and you have to present the other to your chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) within 10 days. Failure to do so will result in a civil infraction with a $250 fine and notification of the state police (and, if appropriate, the CCW board).

For non-FFL purchases:
You can get a purchase permit from any CLEO, not just the one in your town. This is awesome because some CLEOs were dicks.
Legal aliens can apply for permits, whereas it was restricted to U.S. citizens previously.
You no longer need to take the retarded pistol safety exam to get a permit.
Purchase permits will be valid for 30 days instead of 10 days. I wish it was extended to 90 days, but this is good news. On at least one occasion, I had to apply for a new permit because my pistol had to be ordered into the store and it took longer than 10 days.
The number of copies of the permit was reduced from four to three. It's still a civil infraction punishable by a $250 fine if you fail to return two of the three copies once you've made the purchase. Instead of mailing the fourth copy to the state police, your CLEO now must submit their copy electronically.
You are still required to carry your purchase permit along with the pistol for 30 days after your purchase the pistol. I think absolutely nobody knows about this requirement.
The CLEO no longer has to provide a safety brochure. I honestly don't recall ever receiving one, but it's been several years since I needed a purchase permit.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billengrossed/House/pdf/2011-H...

-b0b
(...definitely a positive step!)

Back to top

IP Logged

pezmasterelite GeekCrew n00b Offline The Geek Crew Posts: 38 The Zoo Gender:	Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn Reply #102 - Dec 15^th, 2012 at 4:27pm That is what I noted, one can buy without a ptp at an FFL and then you can also mail in the copy of the paperwork you get from the police. That significantly changes all the running around to buy a gun.
Back to top	IP Logged

Stick Wootzor von Leetenhaxor FTP Server Offline Stick is back Posts: 501 Michgan Gender:	Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn Reply #103 - Jan 29^th, 2013 at 5:06pm Stupid gun control debates have been in the news lately and, gladly IMO, is starting to slide out of the spotlight. I found this to be an interesting video. http://www.youtube.com/embed/kKpLhNiC8zg
Back to top	IP Logged

X

Post Whore
FTP Server

Offline

Truth Is Treason, In The
Empire Of Lies

Posts: 3903
Gender: male

Re: Seriously, Get Off My Lawn
Reply #104 - Feb 5^th, 2013 at 2:13pm

Very neat video:

From description:

"In 1961 Dad enslisted in the Marine Corps and was issued this M1 Garand. A Springfield Armory M1 Serial Number 1380819. Dad has been looking for it for over 50 years. I found it and purchased it from the Civilian Marksmanship Program in secret. It was a One in Six Millon chance to find it. I found it only fitting that a U.S. Marine should give it back to Dad. I love you Dad."

X

Back to top

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. - Max Payne

IP Logged