I was considering posting the Ender's Game poster, but I've convinced myself that movie is going to suck.  I just can't see Ender's Game being brought to the big screen in any way that isn't going to suck.

Here's a poster for another movie I'm pretty geeked about:




-b0b
(...giant mecha battles FTW!)

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To be fair...he's been telling me about this since 8th grade.

X

That'd be 11th grade.

This guy reach in my brain and done saided what I thinks-ed!

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/ron-moore-tv-star-trek-movie-star-trek.ht...

Agreed.  The new movie was entertaining, and guess what - that's why I drop $10 on a movie ticket!

I do agree with the gist of the post, though.  Star Trek: TNG is rarely remembered or loved because of the intense action scenes and graphical hoo-haw.  It's remembered fondly because of the character development, dramatic and developing storylines, etc.  These are not concepts that translate well into a two-hour feature.


-b0b
(...bam!)

X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


Keep in mind this is a two hour action-oriented movie, not a multi-season dramatic TV show.  I personally wasn't interested in watching a soap opera, so I'm glad the story moved at a brisk pace.  You simply aren't going to stuff that much character development into an action movie.  Besides, this is a well-known and well-loved property, so it is hard to blame the writers for not wasting an hour going into great depths on the interaction between Spock and Kirk.


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


I disagree.  The whole purpose of writing an alternate storyline is to allow you to borrow the elements you want from the original storyline (e.g. the universe, the characters, etc) while taking the plot in a new direction that isn't wholly compatible with the original storyline.  This is quite common in Japanese dramatic media, perhaps less so in American media.


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


I'll agree with this to a point.  The idea that Kirk would be given command of the brand-spankin'-new flagship of the fleet following his activities in the Academy borders on absurd.  That said, I again stress the limitations of a two-hour action movie.  Honestly, I thought Kirk's character was very well written and I thoroughly enjoyed his antics.  I don't think a super-serious Kirk would have worked in this movie's paradigm at all.

Personally, if this were my movie, I would have rewritten the end of the Academy bit altogether.  I think the writers might have missed the entire point of Kirk beating the Kobayashi Maru.  Instead of a court martial, I think I would have had Kirk dressed down by an instructor, then immediately applauded by the same instructor for thinking outside the box.  If you recall, in Wrath of Kahn, Kirk mentioned he received a commendation for "original thinking" for hacking the Kobayashi Maru.


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


Somehow, I think you and I watched a totally different original series.  Kirk was a brash womanizer and he repeatedly jeopardized himself, his ship, his crew and the Prime Directive for the sake of an interesting episode.  This isn't TNG we're talking about here.


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


I'll give you some leeway with Uhura.  I understand the need for a sex object to get box office sales, but Uhura was incredibly marginalized as little more than eye candy.  This is a particularly egregious failure considering the ground broken by Nichelle Nichols in the original series.

I must totally disagree with your take on Spock, though.  The entire movie dealt with his struggle between his human and Vulcan lineage.  I felt the movie was very much a "coming of age" for Spock and I think it added a much-needed dose of character development to the film.  I fully expect to see a much more Spock-like Spock in the next movie.  Personally, I thought the admission of Sarek about his love for Amanda Grayson and the tragedy of her loss was particularly moving.  Hell, I thought it was one of the finest moments in the entire film!

I think Scotty and Bones were brilliantly cast.  I never would've thought of putting Simon Pegg in Scotty's role, but it was a fantastic decision.  I think his personality fits the role perfectly.  As you said, Bones was a perfect copy of his TOS counterpart, and that one really fit well into the new dynamic.

I enjoyed Chekov's lines and I think the part was cast well, but admittedly he was a bit of a "fixture" character that seemed to exist solely because he had to.


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


Again, we're talking about a plot device in a two-hour action movie.  It's not the choice I would have made, but then again, I've never written a movie that grossed $385 million at the box office.  I think the writers made it clear this was only one of a large number of discoveries Scotty would make, and he would have eventually made it anyway, so I don't think Scotty was devalued much by the revelation of the transporter technology by Spock.  Besides, there are plenty of way to play this into Scotty's favor moving forward, as he can now spend the time that was devoted to this invention to other discoveries.


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


This is easily the most controversial decision in the film, but I think my biggest problem with it is the nearly complete genocide of the Vulcan race.  The Vulcans have had warp technology since at least 900 B.C., so I find it hard to believe that virtually their entire population was on Vulcan.  In 3,000 years, you'd think they'd have spread out to quite a few other planets of their own, not to mention the substantial populations that would live on planets owned by other intelligent species.  They are natural diplomats, after all.  Hell, there should be a few million of them on starships alone!

Even the 10,000 that escaped Vulcan seems really low.  Nero didn't destroy the planet instantaneously, so why wasn't there a larger population that was able to escape?  Why wasn't Nero every confronted by some sort of military/police response from the planet?  Again, these guys have been capable of interstellar travel for 3,000 years, so I fail to believe they would have much trouble dealing with one crufty old mining ship, even if it is full of special "black hole juice".


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


I covered this earlier, but again, I disagree completely with your take on Spock.  It's obvious he's struggling with the dichotomy of his human and Vulcan sides.  Personally, I'm glad the writers included this bit because it really fleshes out Spock as a character.  Again, his discussion with Sarek toward the end of the movie is a brilliant piece of dialogue.  It shows the audience that Spock isn't some kind of automaton that is incapable of emotion, and it really demonstrates the immensity of the statement that Vulcans can feel emotions at a much deeper level than their human counterparts.

So, yeah, when Spock is faced with an emotional dilemma in the future, I think we'll see him handle it seemingly effortlessly, but we'll be aware that deep inside he's facing turmoil far greater than his counterparts can even imagine.  That is good writing.


X wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 9:02am:


I see we've already invoked Godwin's law.  ;p 

So if you wound up in a different universe, you wouldn't kill Hitler?  Sure, it's not going to change things in the universe you came from, but you can't change things there, so why not do what you can here?

I think Nero's basic premise was understandable.  His little girl and his entire planet died and he believed the Vulcan's were responsible for it.  Why wouldn't he want to exact vengeance upon them?  If anything, I think the biggest complaint that could be levied against this part of the storyline is that it's ridiculously cliché.  Seriously, this is a plot that is older than dirt.


-b0b
(...spent way too long on this. 

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I agree with the "it's only 2 hours" statement.  However, you are asking everyone to completely forget about the universe JJ is stealing from and to just accept his changes.  I think the movie would have greatly benefited from building the story around Kirk/Spock.  Make us love them.  Make us see them become friends and trust each other and learn from each other.  What did we see?  Them HATING each other and then just tolerating each other because Pike said so.

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And last time I checked, this is 'Merica!  This wasn't just borrowing the elements from Trek.  This was raping the entire universe we knew for what JJ wanted.  It reminded me of the South Park with Lucas/Spielberg raping Indiana Jones (and I tend to give Indy 4 a lot of breaks others don't).  This is the same thing the Star Wars prequels did.  Nope, it's not the Force that flows through us and surrounds us.  It's mediclorians.  Storm Troopers are all clone that the creator just forgot about.  Darth Vader was a whinny kid inside a black tin can who didn't like sand.  I don't like this new Star Trek for the same reasons the Star Wars prequels failed (and almost for the same reasons).

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And I don't think we would want a super serious Kirk.  We want a Kirk who is still rough around the edges and still trips over his shoelaces.  But for some kid who wants revenge on the guy who killed his father, he sure did try to do everything possible to be expelled from that chance.

And I agree completely on your take with the Maru.  Again, it's JJ attempting to elbow us in the side and raise an eye brown and say "Eh?  Eh!  Remember that thing!"

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I think we did watch a different series.  Kirk had some ladies but so did TNG (heck some of them weren't even real - creepy).  Also, I know you are being facetious with "this isn't TNG" but Kirk and Picard both jeopardized each other by always being on the away team.  Both crews struggled with the Prime Directive (not as poorly as Voyager pounded it from behind without lube).  But I think you are looking at the parodies and tropes of TOS and making them standard episode plot points.  I'm not saying TOS is perfect, nor TNG is bad.  Heck, the only series I can never defend is Voyager.  But it's not as bad as you seem to recall.

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Spock didn't struggle with his Vulcan/humanity.  He faked his Vulcan side to hide his humanity.  And it wasn't until broken Spock could be taken care of by his woman (what chick doesn't love broken guys?) that he's able to be himself.  Let me just say that I was the most happy about Zachary Quinto being cast as Spock.  His work in "Heroes" showed off his great potential for playing the beloved, green blooded Vulcan.

I know you could hit me with the "only 2 hours" thing again.  However, in TOS Spock was introduced to us just as he was.  We knew what kind of character he was because Nemoy did an excellent job.  You could have done a flashback and heck, even referenced the Animated Series which would have won me over for that sole reason (seriously, the Spock episode is a must watch).  But all that aside, I wanted to see a friendship formed.  I saw R2D2 in a pile of debris instead.

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Or we can just keep bringing people from the real universe to give him what he would discover and make him a lazy non-essential.  I think it would have been more fun with Old Spock would have said something like "maybe look at how the delithium crystals are aligned".  And then have Scotty go on "A Beautiful Mind" type epiphany with techno-bable and everything.  Push him in that direction, but don't just give him the finished product of HIS hard work.

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And you can't tell me that Romulus didn't want to use this tech for wiping out planets.  These things are The Death Star if you can have some defense ships in escort.  Take those puppies to Earth, Romulans!  You'd win for sure.

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And depicting him as an automaton would have been horrible because he is not that.  When Spock in TOS thought he killed his captain he attempted to maintain composure and when Kirk revealed himself as alive, we saw the Vulcan retreat and the humanity break free, but it was quickly replaced.  That was a beautiful scene in TOS.  In the movie, I just imagine U'hurah's jumper just being all snotty with Spock's hissy fit boogers.

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Hey, what's a debate without a Hitler reference.  I could use Pearl Harbor attack if that helps.  And no, I wouldn't help next door's universe because I'm out for revenge on the Japanese fleet and this isn't the Japanese fleet that attacks MY base.  This is a different timeline where Michael Jackson remained black his entire life.

Also, for Nero it's not about helping this universe.  It's about getting revenge.  To kill Vulcan here leaves "the real universe" (as I call it) with a happy Vulcan planet who is now free from Romulas and can Fawn Par in peace.

And for a plot point that is cliché, JJ ruins it by placing it in another universe.

I don't know if you guys watched the TV show Eureka.  But the show eventually followed some characters from the main group to an alternative timeline.  One of the characters had a special needs son and newly born baby girl in the original timeline.

Well the characters get moved to this alt. version and never go back to their original.  In this new one, her kid isn't special needs anymore and her baby is now aged by about 2-3 years.

However!  No one ever talks about leaving a special needs kid and newborn baby alone for the rest of their lives in the original universe.  The writers wanted to change some things up and said "F it" to the original timeline and wanted you to only care about the new one...although they got to use the transfer from one timeline to the other as a plot point a few times.

This tells me that the mother character didn't really care about her real children and boy, thank goodness her kid isn't retarded any more and she doesn't have to change poopy diapers...she got to miss all that!

That's what this Star Trek universe reminds me of.

X