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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #150 - Feb 12th, 2007 at 9:51am
 
But if that guy thinks the Holy Spirit is a magnetic field...he's a moron.

I do like however that he's doing a few things.

1)  He's making a prediction (that God exists).
2)  Those predictions are leading to a gathering of facts (where certain things came from).
3)  That gathering of facts are leading him to make other predictions (since A happen B will happen).

And what do you call the following all wrapped up?!

SCIENCE!

Not a pseudo-science like "scientists" want to call creation study.  Their number one response always is..."well it never makes predictions so it's useless and a theory that doesn't make predictions isn't a science!"  Well I've never bought this argument because in any debate you would show proof for your argument and then predict what would happen.

So put that in your pipe that came from rain on a rock 6 billion years ago...and that rock came from nothing....and smoke it!

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #151 - Feb 12th, 2007 at 1:06pm
 
Where does he get the idea that the Holy Spirit is a "magnetic force?"  That's just retarded.

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #152 - Feb 12th, 2007 at 3:51pm
 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1363818.ece

Quote:
When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works. We were treated to another dose of it recently when the experts of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issued the Summary for Policymakers that puts the political spin on an unfinished scientific dossier on climate change due for publication in a few months’ time. They declared that most of the rise in temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to man-made greenhouse gases.

The small print explains “very likely” as meaning that the experts who made the judgment felt 90% sure about it. Older readers may recall a press conference at Harwell in 1958 when Sir John Cockcroft, Britain’s top nuclear physicist, said he was 90% certain that his lads had achieved controlled nuclear fusion. It turned out that he was wrong. More positively, a 10% uncertainty in any theory is a wide open breach for any latterday Galileo or Einstein to storm through with a better idea. That is how science really works.


Good article
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #153 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 9:41am
 
Quote:
Evolution Up For A Vote Again In Kansas

...

Clarence Darrow (left) and William Jennings Bryan, in Dayton, Tenn., at the 1925 Scopes "monkey" trial – the most famous of legal clashes over the theory of evolution, involving biology teacher John Scopes


(AP) Anti-evolution science standards for Kansas' public schools were doomed by a shift of power on the State Board of Education after last year's elections.

The new board, with a 6-4 majority of Democrats and moderate Republicans in control, scheduled a debate for 4 p.m. Tuesday on a new set of proposed science standards, the fifth set of guidelines in only eight years. Parties on both sides anticipated the board would dump the standards adopted in November 2005.

Those standards, backed by intelligent design advocates, suggest important evolutionary concepts - like a common origin for all life on Earth and changes in one species leading to a new one - are controversial and challenged by new evidence. Such statements defied mainstream science and brought Kansas international ridicule.

An alternative, drafted by scientists and educators, would delete such language and treat evolution as well-supported by research. It also would rewrite the standards' definition of science to specifically limit it to the search for natural explanations for what's observed in the universe.

But the board's swing back to mainstream scientific views wasn't likely to settle the issue, given many Kansans' religious objections and other misgivings about evolution, even 198 years after British naturalist Charles Darwin's birth, which was Monday.

"I don't think this issue is going to go away. I think it's going to be around forever," said board Chairman Bill Wagnon, a Topeka Democrat who supports evolution-friendly standards.

Last year, other states saw legal disputes or political, legislative or school debates over how evolution should be taught, including California, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Ohio, Nevada and South Carolina.

But none have inspired attention - or comedians' jokes - like Kansas has. A conservative-led state board deleted most references to evolution in rewriting the standards in 1999; two years later, a less conservative board returned to evolution-friendly standards.

Conservative Republicans skeptical of evolution had a 6-4 majority when the standards came up for review again in 2005. But moderate Republicans captured two seats from conservatives in GOP primaries last year, guaranteeing a return to evolution-friendly guidelines.

"There's this, I think, political agenda to just ensure that evolution is the driving, underlying notion that has to be accepted in Kansas science standards in order for Kansas to keep its head up in the world, which is just bizarre," said board member Ken Willard, a Hutchinson Republican who supported the 2005 standards.

The standards are used to develop tests that measure how well students learn science. Decisions about what's taught remain with 296 local school boards, but both sides say the state guidelines will have some influence in classrooms, as teachers strive to see their students do well on the tests.


That is easily the most biased article I have ever read.  What a pathetic excuse for journalism.  Once again, they treat evolution as "the only scientific theory" and intelligent design as little more than religious conjecture.

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(...doesn't think the Scopes reference was at all necessary.)
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #154 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 12:48pm
 
Quote:
Study: Chimps may have used 'hammers' 4,300 years ago
POSTED: 5:17 p.m. EST, February 12, 2007
Story Highlights
• Stone "hammers" dating back 4,300 years may have been used by chimps
• The hammers, about the size of cantaloupes, were found in West Africa
• Anthropologist skeptical of findings, calls for more evidence
Adjust font size:
Decrease fontDecrease font
Enlarge fontEnlarge font

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Chimpanzees may have been using stone "hammers" as long as 4,300 years ago, an international research team, led by archaeologist Julio Mercader of the University of Calgary, Canada, said Monday.

The researchers uncovered the hammers, in the West African country Ivory Coast. It would be the earliest known use of tools by chimpanzees.

The hammers were used to crack nuts, a behavior still seen in chimps in that area, the researchers said in a paper in the online edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The finding may indicate that a "chimpanzee stone age" began in ancient times, the researchers say.

The earliest reports of stone tool use by chimpanzees in this area date to the writings of Portuguese explorers in the 1600s.

The stones were about the size of cantaloupes with patterns of wear indicating use to crack nuts. The rocks would have been too large for human hands, but about right for the larger, stronger hands of chimpanzees, the researchers said.

"It's not clear whether we hominins invented this kind of stone technology, or whether both humans and the great apes inherited it from a common forebear," Mercader said in a statement.

But, he added, there were not any farmers living in this region 4,300 years ago, so it is unlikely chimpanzees picked it up by imitating villagers.

Others are not so sure.

The tools may predate farming in the area but not necessarily human contact, said anthropologist Stanley H. Ambrose of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. There were early human hunter-gatherers in the region at the time, he said.

If chimps and early humans shared this technology with a common ancestor between 5 million and 7 million years ago, there should be sites with chimp debris going back 5 million years and the earliest human stone tool sites should show the kinds of debris found at the chimp sites, Ambrose said: "They absolutely do not."

Some of the hammers also had starch residue on them, mostly from types of nuts that are still eaten by chimpanzees, but not humans. Some of the starch was also associated with tubers but the researchers interpreted that as "background noise" probably picked up in the ground.

Skeptical of the starch findings was anthropologist Jeanne Sept, dean of faculties at Indiana University.

"Their interpretations of the starch grains recovered from the specimens are incomplete, and somewhat circular," she said. "For example, they do not describe which surfaces of the rock fragments the starch grains were obtained from, which makes it difficult to judge whether the grains were left on the tools as a result of tool-use, or if the grains merely naturally stuck to the stones after they became buried in the soil."

"They assert that starch grains from nuts were behaviorally significant, while they decide that starch grains identified as yam roots are 'background noise' but give no justification for that," she added. "They may in fact be dismissing or ignoring evidence that does not match their chimp-nut interpretation of the site."

"It may be premature to accept the range of their claims until further evidence is presented," Sept concluded.

Mercader's research was funded primarily by the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Leipzig, Germany; Canada Research Chairs program, Canada Foundation for Innovation and the University of Calgary.


I wonder if this is like the false Peking Man...where hammers and stone tools were found in a cave by some monkey bones.  Scientists attributed the tools to the monkeys as the makers.  However the monkeys heads were bashed in and normal human remains were found later in a deeper recess of the cave.  What were the monkeys knocking their own skulls in and eating their own brain?!

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #155 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 4:24pm
 
I think the real issue about those chimps is whether or not using tools declares them as some kind of half human.  However, there are many other animals that use "tools" like:

     Birds, bees, beavers etc. building nests.
     Woodpeckers using sticks to pry out insects.
     Green Herons dropping an object in water as bait for fish.
       Vultures cracking eggs open with rocks.
       Elephants using a branch as a flyswatter.

But you don't here anything about these becuase it doesn't fit the human evolutionary tree.  They make it sound like tool use (intelligence) is something that evolved in primates, but apparently it must have evolved many times in other animals indenpendently at about the same time. Tongue

Also, the chimps used hammers in the past, but they don't do it in the present?
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #156 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 4:41pm
 
Quote:
Also, the chimps used hammers in the past, but they don't do it in the present?


because they turned into humans, silly!

Oh and left some behind that did not want to become human.
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #157 - Feb 13th, 2007 at 4:52pm
 
You know I've been wanting to grow wings for the longest time.  Do you think I could do so?  If I wanted it really really bad?

I'd so leave you feeble minded "homo sapien spaiens" behind!

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #158 - Feb 22nd, 2007 at 2:30pm
 
Look another article that PROVES that since monkeys use tools that we evolved from them!

Quote:
Hunting chimps may change view of human evolution

By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor 1 hour, 37 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Chimpanzees have been seen using spears to hunt bush babies, U.S. researchers said on Thursday in a study that demonstrates a whole new level of tool use and planning by our closest living relatives.
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Perhaps even more intriguing, it was only the females who fashioned and used the wooden spears, Jill Pruetz and Paco Bertolani of Iowa State University reported.

Bertolani saw an adolescent female chimp use a spear to stab a bush baby as it slept in a tree hollow, pull it out and eat it.

Pruetz and Bertolani, now at Cambridge University in Britain, had been watching the Fongoli community of savanna-dwelling chimpanzees in southeastern Senegal.

The chimps apparently had to invent new ways to gather food because they live in an unusual area for their species, the researchers report in the journal Current Biology.

"This is just an innovative way of having to make up for a pretty harsh environment," Pruetz said in a telephone interview. The chimps must come down from trees to gather food and rest in dry caves during the hot season.

"It is similar to what we say about early hominids that lived maybe 6 million years ago and were basically the precursors to humans."

Chimpanzees are genetically the closest living relatives to human beings, sharing more than 98 percent of our DNA. Scientists believe the precursors to chimps and humans split off from a common ancestor about 7 million years ago.

Chimps are known to use tools to crack open nuts and fish for termites. Some birds use tools, as do other animals such as gorillas, orangutans and even naked mole rats.

But the sophisticated use of a tool to hunt with had never been seen.

Pruetz thought it was a fluke when Bertolani saw the adolescent female hunt and kill the bush baby, a tiny nocturnal primate.

But then she saw almost the same thing. "I saw the behavior over the course of 19 days almost daily," she said.

PLANNING AND FORESIGHT

The chimps choose a branch, strip it of leaves and twigs, trim it down to a stable size and then chew the ends to a point. Then they use it to stab into holes where bush babies might be sleeping.

It is not a highly successful method of hunting. They only ever saw one chimpanzee succeed in getting a bush baby once. The apes mostly eat fruit, bark and legumes.

Part of the problem is this group of chimps is shy of humans, and the females, who seem to do most of this type of hunting, are especially wary. "I am willing to bet the females do it even more than we have seen," she said.

Pruetz noted that male chimps never used the spears. She believes the males use their greater strength and size to grab food and kill prey more easily, so the females must come up with other methods.

"That to me was just as intriguing if not even more so," Pruetz said.

The spear-hunting occurred when the group was foraging together, again unchimplike behavior that might produce more competition between males and females, she said.

Maybe females invented weapons for hunting, Pruetz said.

"The observation that individuals hunting with tools include females and immature chimpanzees suggests that we should rethink traditional explanations for the evolution of such behavior in our own lineage," she concluded in her paper.

"The multiple steps taken by Fongoli chimpanzees in making tools to dispatch mammalian prey involve the kind of foresight and intellectual complexity that most likely typified early human relatives."


So since females hunted does that mean they should run the world now?  Also couldn't we have evolved from lions as well since they hold their food with their paws.  Maybe we're a product of a money and a lion.  A Lonkey or a Mion!!!

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #159 - Feb 24th, 2007 at 6:28pm
 
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjI4NTc0YWMzNTA3ZjRmYmJiMDRjNmI5MGEwZTFhM2E...

Quote:
This Sunday, Al Gore will probably win an Academy Award for his global-warming documentary An Inconvenient Truth, a riveting work of science fiction.

The main point of the movie is that, unless we do something very serious, very soon about carbon dioxide emissions, much of Greenland’s 630,000 cubic miles of ice is going to fall into the ocean, raising sea levels over twenty feet by the year 2100.

Where’s the scientific support for this claim? Certainly not in the recent Policymaker’s Summary from the United Nations’ much anticipated compendium on climate change. Under the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s medium-range emission scenario for greenhouse gases, a rise in sea level of between 8 and 17 inches is predicted by 2100. Gore’s film exaggerates the rise by about 2,000 percent.

Even 17 inches is likely to be high, because it assumes that the concentration of methane, an important greenhouse gas, is growing rapidly. Atmospheric methane concentration hasn’t changed appreciably for seven years, and Nobel Laureate Sherwood Rowland recently pronounced the IPCC’s methane emissions scenarios as “quite unlikely.”
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #160 - Mar 5th, 2007 at 6:48am
 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070301103112.htm

Quote:
Scientists have discovered a large area thousands of square kilometres in extent in the middle of the Atlantic where the Earth’s crust appears to be missing. Instead, the mantle - the deep interior of the Earth, normally covered by crust many kilometres thick - is exposed on the seafloor, 3000m below the surface.

Marine geologist Dr Chris MacLeod, School of Earth, Ocean and Planetary Sciences said: "This discovery is like an open wound on the surface of the Earth. Was the crust never there? Was it once there but then torn away on huge geological faults? If so, then how and why?"



Maybe where the water broke out during the flood?

Genesis 7:11

Quote:
When Noah was six hundred years old, the flood started. On the seventeenth day of the second month of the year the underground springs split open, and the clouds in the sky poured out rain.


who knows!
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #161 - Mar 5th, 2007 at 12:17pm
 
Geez Briney how can you take a theory and make predictions are you trying to make Creationism/I.D. into science?  Man than what would happen to all the scientists out there claiming that it's pseudo-science.

I wonder what Richard Dawkins thinks of this?  If he exists!!

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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #162 - Mar 5th, 2007 at 1:00pm
 
Good find, Briney!

I'm working on a creation science series with my teen class at church for a few weeks now and I think I'll throw this into next week's lesson!

-b0b
(...can't wait until it's DINOSAUR time!  Rawr!)
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Re: Science Schmience Thread
Reply #163 - Mar 14th, 2007 at 9:49pm
 
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Reply #164 - Mar 29th, 2007 at 6:02pm
 
Quote:
Study: Dinosaur demise didn't spur species

By MALCOLM RITTER, AP Science Writer 2 hours, 5 minutes ago

NEW YORK - The big dinosaur extinction of 65 million years ago didn't produce a flurry of new species in the ancestry of modern mammals after all, says a huge study that challenges a long-standing theory.
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Scientists who constructed a massive evolutionary family tree for mammals found no sign of such a burst of new species at that time among the ancestors of present-day animals.

Only mammals with no modern-day descendants showed that effect.

"I was flabbergasted," said study co-author Ross MacPhee, curator of vertebrate zoology at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

At the time of the dinosaur demise, mammals were small, ranging in size between shrews and cats. The long-held view has been that once the dinosaurs were gone, mammals were suddenly free to exploit new food sources and habitats, and as a result they produced a burst of new species.

The new study says that happened to some extent, but that the new species led to evolutionary dead ends. In contrast, no such burst was found for the ancestors of modern-day mammals like rodents, cats, horses, elephants and people.

Instead, they showed an initial burst between 100 million about 85 million years ago, with another between about 55 million and 35 million year ago, researchers report in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature.

The timing of that first period of evolutionary development generally agrees with the conclusions of some previous studies of mammal DNA, which argue for a much earlier origin of some mammal lineages than the fossil record does.

The second burst had shown up in the fossil record, MacPhee said. But he said the new study explains why scientists have been unable to find relatively modern-looking ancestors of the creatures known from that time: without any evolutionary boost from the dinosaur demise, those ancestors were still relatively primitive.

Some experts praised the large scale of the new evolutionary tree, which used a controversial "supertree" method to combine data covering the vast majority of mammal species. It challenges paleontologists to find new fossils that can shed light on mammal history, said Greg Wilson, curator of vertebrate paleontology at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science.

William J. Murphy of Texas A&M University, who is working on a similar project, said no previous analysis had included so many mammal species.

But, "I don't think this is the final word," he said.

The study's approach for assigning dates was relatively crude, he said, and some dates it produced for particular lineages disagree with those obtained by more updated methods.

So as for its interpretation of what happened when the dinosaurs died off, "I'm not sure that conclusion is well-founded," Murphy said.

John Gittleman, a study co-author and director of the University of Georgia Institute of Ecology, said the researchers considered a range of previously reported dates for when various lineages split. They found the overall conclusions of the study were not significantly affected by which dates they chose, he said.

Researchers should now look at such things as the rise of flowering plants and a cooling of the worldwide climate to explain why ancestors of present-day mammals took off before the dinosaurs died out, Gittleman said. The cause of the later boom is also a mystery, he said.

The study's family tree includes 4,510 species, more than 99 percent of mammal species covered by an authoritative listing published in 1993. (Nearly 300 species have since been added to the listing, but the researchers said that doesn't affect their study's conclusions.) To construct it, the researchers combined previously published work that relied on analysis of DNA, fossils, anatomy and other information.

S. Blair Hedges, an evolutionary biologist at Pennsylvania State University, said the new work "pushes the envelope in the methods and data, and that's really important."

He said the demise of the dinosaurs may have affected mammal evolution by influencing characteristics like body size rather than boosting the number of new species created. Such changes wouldn't be picked up by the new study, he noted.

___

On the Net:

Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature


Oh ya?  Then were did all the birds and crocodiles come from?!  As we ALL KNOW birds and reptiles came from the dinosaurs.  Just like we knew that the killing of the dinosaurs sprung new....species.....oh wait....

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