New toy!  I'll post more (and better!) pics tomorrow when I'm not dead tired.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Remington870.jpg

I needed a shotgun for Three Gun competitions (combined pistol/rifle/shotgun courses), so I picked up this bad boy today.  It's a Remington 870 Tactical with a breaching barrel and a pistol grip stock.  I'll be adding a magazine extension, sling, and some other goodies for Three Gun.


-b0b
(...w00t!)

That's an awesome purchase.  Incidently, I am going today to pick up my Rem. 870!  The only prob. I have with it is not all of it is black.  But it seems like the parts that aren't would be easy enough to replace.

Has anyone heard anything about AR 15 Carbon?  Someone is selling it for $650 and I was seriously considering buying it from them (pic attached).

Also, other than shooting it, what would be some things to look at to make sure it isn't too good to be true?

X

---

My new one.

---

Dude, sweet 870, and crazy timing!  Were you just looking for a shotgun, or are you planning on hunting or something?  I'm jealous of the vented rib on the barrel!  I wanted to get one, but couldn't get that and the stock I wanted together, so I'll have to replace my barrel eventually.  

If you want to replace the wood furniture with black polymer, there are several vendors.  Knoxx Tactical is very well regarded for their collapsible stocks.  In addition to the obvious benefits of a telescoping stock, the Knoxx models also reduce the recoil considerably.  That could be very beneficial if you plan on putting a lot of rounds down range.

As for the Carbon 15, they're very decent Bushmaster ARs that really run the gamut in terms of configuration and options.  Carbon 15s are available in pistol and rifle configurations in a variety of pistol and rifle calibers.  You can see the current lineup here:

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_index.asp


Once you've found your model, take a look at GunBroker.com.  That site will give you a decent idea about the reasonability of the asking price for a used gun.  As long as the gun is in decent operating condition and it has the features you want (e.g. caliber, barrel length, receiver type), I'd say the price you quoted sounds incredibly reasonable.


-b0b
(...yay AR15!)

I was looking for a shotgun for home defense.  Got it used at Gander Mt. for a decent price and the people there helping were awesome.  If you're jealous of my vented rib then I'm jealous of your pistol grip stock.  I might look into those places so thanks.

Thanks for the info on the AR-15.  Unfortunately, the guy lives in Saginaw and that's a big trip for a model that doesn't exactly meet what I want.  But I can wait.  I'm 1/4 of the way through my "need" collection before I start on my "wants" which is nice.

Besides the AR-15 M4 model, I want the Remington 700 for my long range and Ruger CRR for my .22.  If you see anyone selling them for a good price, let me know.

X

I'm also looking for a Remington 700 for a long-range gun, although I might hold out and save up for my super-duper-ultra dream gun...

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Dragunov.jpg

If God needed a rifle, he'd carry a Dragunov.


-b0b
(...drools.)

Yesterday's three gun course was really fun, and I think I'm addicted already.  You guys should really consider giving it a go.  We could have our own Geek Crew squad.  ;)

Since it was raining during the course, I made sure to strip down, clean, and oil my guns as soon as I got home.  Here's some random crappy pics, since this thread needs more gun pr0n.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/ThreeGun3.jpg
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/ThreeGun2.jpg
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/ThreeGun.jpg


-b0b
(...can't wait to shoot more stuff!)

Nice pics bob, and that three gun course sounds pretty interesting. I have some gun pr0n to add to this thread... I'll take some pics soon.

Also, how much is that Dragunov?

MediaMaster wrote on Apr 18^th, 2011 at 1:45am:

I have some gun pr0n to add to this thread... I'll take some pics soon.

You'd better not hold out on us!  I've set a recurring calendar reminder so that I can bug you until you show us the goods!



Quote:

Also, how much is that Dragunov?

A real Dragunov costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $3,000 to $3,500 dollars.  Pristine samples with matching numbers, match-grade wood, and authentic scopes can be even pricier.  You can buy knockoff look-a-likes called PSLs for about $1,000, but a PSL is just an AK-47 that's been kitted out to look like a Dragunov.


-b0b
(...would sell FatMan's kidney for a Dragunov.)

---

Bob,

I'm looking for some good target ammo for my Rem. 870.  CheaperThanDirt has a lot and I'm trying to find some good bulk stock.  Any suggestions?

Should I stick with shooting Slug/Buck or is another type better for target ammo?

Thanks,

X

It depends on the type of target you're shooting.  If you're shooting at paper targets, I'd recommend going with lighter shot shells.  Anything from #6 to #9 will work, but I generally prefer #7.5 or #8.

If you're shooting at steel targets (knock-down silhouettes, pepper poppers, etc), you might want something a little heavier to ensure you fully neutralize the target.  Be really careful with slugs, though.  Slugs absolutely must not be used on most metal targets due to the high fragmentation rate.

With a shotgun, accuracy is mostly dependent on the choke you're using and the length of the barrel.  I'm currently using a compensated "intermediate choke" that forces shot pellets into a moderately tight cone.  This provides a 50/50 trade-off between accuracy (all pellets in a small area) and spread (all pellets spread out).

So, now that I've rambled, I'd recommend going with #7 or #8 shot.  Any major brand will do just fine, but I'd stay away from Fiocchi.  I had serious problems cycling the pump on both my 870 and Mike's 870 this weekend using Fiocchi ammunition, which is a huge deal during a timed competition.


-b0b
(.../ramble.)

I just picked up some target ammo for my 870.  I'll run it through the paces this weekend and let you know how it goes.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/ShotgunAmmo.jpg

Yeah, that ammo I posted above?  Don't buy it.  Federal seems to be having some quality control issues.

I took a couple boxes out this weekend to run them through the 870, and the bottom row of shells from both boxes were excessively rusty.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/ShotgunAmmo2.jpg
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/ShotgunAmmo3.jpg

I sent an e-mail to Federal's customer support last night, no word back yet.


-b0b
(...grrr!)

I added a 2-round extension to my 870 last night.  It seems to cycle well, but I need to get back to the range to throw a couple boxes of shells through it.  Adding the extension is pretty easy and only requires a bit of Dremel work.

Here's a shot of the old magazine.  The original mag cap will be removed and replaced by the one-piece extension.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/MagExtension1.jpg


The original mag cap, spring, and plastic spring retainer are removed.  The spring retainer is held on by two metal nubs that are punched into the magazine.  The nubs must be removed with a half-round file or a Dremel.  Here's a picture of the partially removed nubs.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/MagExtension2.jpg

After the nubs are removed, the magazine is thoroughly cleaned with a regular shotgun cleaning kit.  I used a gun bluing pen ($5.00 at any gun store) to cover the bare metal, then thoroughly oiled the magazine.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/MagExtension3.jpg

After the extension was screwed on, I used a magazine/light clamp to hold the extension in place.  The extension was really solid and this ended up being totally unnecessary, but I'd already bought the clamp and decided to use it anyway.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/MagExtension4.jpg


-b0b
(...now has 7+1 rounds instead of 5+1.)

Since Briney hasn't posted his pictures yet, here's more random gun pr0n.  Magpul PMags (polymer AR-15 magazines) were on sale last week, so I picked up three of them.  I also picked up a pack of Ranger Plates, which replace the flat PMag bottom with a rubber doohickey that is used as a finger hook for fast mag changes.  It also reduces the impact on the magazine if it is dropped on the ground when empty, which is common procedure for competitive shooting.

I picked up a double magazine holster to keep my reloads on my belt, which is shown in these pictures holding the magazines together.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Magpul1.jpg
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Magpul2.jpg
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Magpul3.jpg


-b0b
(...needs a few more.)

Sometimes you whackos scare me.

Sorry, Wes.  Does this fit your style any better?

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/CopsPistol.jpg
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/CopsPistol2.jpg
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/CopsPistol3.jpg


-b0b
(...bedazzled!)

lol someone had too much time.

I grabbed those pictures from a forum several years back, but if I remember the story correctly, the pistol belonged to a police officer.  Apparently, he kept leaving his pistol in the break room at the police station, which is a pretty big mistake.  To bust his balls, his fellow officers painted it pink and purple and added the glitter and stickers.


-b0b
(...thinks it beats getting fired.)

I just wanted to point out that Briney still hasn't posted those pictures he mentioned.


-b0b
(...is in Florida, or he'd post more pics, too!)

AND WHERE IS BATTLEFIELD EARTH AND THE CREATION LECTURE?!?!?!?!

DAY 26

I'm looking at getting this AR-15 very, very soon.

Does anyone have any opinions on this model?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/38638-55.html

X

DAY 35

Another week rolls by without Briney's promised pictures!


-b0b
(...can't count much higher than 35.)

X wrote on May 22^nd, 2011 at 1:00am:

I'm looking at getting this AR-15 very, very soon. Does anyone have any opinions on this model? http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/38638-55.html X

It looks like a decent starter AR to me.  My first AR-15 was an Olympic Arms, and it still shoots just fine.  They tend to be a bit rougher than other, bigger (and more expensive) names, but they're still very reliable guns.


-b0b
(...has a mid-ban model.)

Bob,

With all the models that look pretty much the same should I only be looking for a Colt or a Remington or something like that?

This O.A. one I found to be pretty cheap for an AR being at $850ish.

X

Colt is some what like Nike - decent product, but you're paying for the name.  Remington is a bit of a no-name in the AR arena, and I've never personally shot one, so I can't really say much about them.

Some of the more popular manufacturers include Bushmaster, DPMS, and Larue.  I'd recommend taking a look at Bushmaster to see what you think.  They're very well regarded amongst the "black rifle" community, and they're relatively inexpensive.  I'm sure you can get a comparable model for about the same amount as the Olympic Arms you listed.


-b0b
(...can bring out one of each if you'd like.)

BRINEYGATE - DAY 49

Still no pics!


-b0b
(...will never forget.)

http://reddogreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Crying-Baby.jpeg

LOL yeaaaa ok ill post pics tonight.

(restart the counter!)

Who's the first to notice?

http://i.imgur.com/JIdfi.jpg

hahaha!

*insert witty female joke here*

Dude, that article is from... like... 1924!  Here's a tougher one for ya...

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/HKReliability.jpg

Can you spot the problem with this H&K promotional brochure?


-b0b
(...roffles!)

The rounds in the magazine (magazine NOT clip) are backwards.

X

Brineygate - Day 56

So Briney, can you at least describe these pictures you promised us?


-b0b
(...can bust out MS Paint if necessary.)

Brineygate - Day 71

Could you at least throw some ASCII art our way?!


-b0b
(...pew pew!)

---

hahahahhaha i fail at life... ill post... soon

Brineygate - Day 91

How about a quick sketch on a napkin?  You can mail it to me and I'll scan it in!


-b0b
(...points out that it's been three months!)

Brineygate - Date 133


Briney has hit triple digits!

Brineygate - Day 161

Never forgive - never forget!

Cross-posted from the Fall LAN Party thread:

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/BrineyLAN2.jpg

I'm not stopping the Brineygate count because we've only got one gun, but it's a start!

Tell us about it, Briney.  What kind of scope did you throw on it?  Did you buy it as a complete package, or did you build it?  Where'd you get it from?  Where are you shooting it?


-b0b
(...guns guns guns!)

Hi all,

Long time, I like to see that all of you are still on here.  Also I like to see that X is still holding out for Battlefield Earth, didn't he lose the original footage or something...

I just recently moved down to Kalamazoo with the misses, and I was wondering what everyone was up to.  Yup, I got married in March, don't feel bad for no invites, we got married on the beach in Puerto Rico.  I did a bit of reading, X congrats, glad to see your happy, I can't wait to hear from everyone else and to read some more of what I missed.

By the way, for this post, I have the following:

an off-brand 12-guage pump, nothing special,
a Marlin .22 ducks unlimited edition with scope, got it real cheap,
a Remmington Mark III .22 Target Pistol,  stainless, and
.40 cal HK USP compact, always loaded correctly...

I will not hold out on pics like others, but sadly for a day or two I must, my friend is borrowing my digital.

That is all for now,

pez

Shizza!  It's good to see you!  We were just talking about you at the LAN on Saturday!

I hope marriage is treating you well.  I think Wes is the only holdout at this point, and I don't see that changing any time soon.  ;p

What brings you back to Kalamazoo?  Are you teaching at Western?  We'll definitely have to plan a gathering of geeks in the near future!



pezmasterelite wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 4:41pm:

a Remmington Mark III .22 Target Pistol,  stainless

I've got a Ruger Mark I (the much-older brother of the Mark III) in a bull-barrel target configuration, and it's an incredibly fun gun to shoot.  It's my favorite pistol to use to teach new shooters.  It's incredibly accurate and has absolutely no recoil, which makes it popular with new shooters and the ladies.

Come to think of it, I should probably drag it out and oil it up.



pezmasterelite wrote on Oct 15^th, 2011 at 4:41pm:

.40 cal HK USP compact, always loaded correctly...

A good friend of mine has a full-size H&K USP in .45.  It's a fun gun to shoot.  I've been thinking about picking up a full-size USP in .40S&W as a secondary carry gun, but it's going to have to wait until I finally pull the trigger (ba dum cha!) on my dream gun:

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Dragunov2.jpg

I am thoroughly convinced there is no sexier gun than the Dragunov.


-b0b
(...welcome back!)

Did you hear us talking about you at the LAN last week?!?!?!?!?!?!?

X

Haha, I meant Ruger Mark III, I must have been confused with the shotty talk.  I wish mine had the 7.25" barrel, that would be sweet.

We should get together and shoot some things apparently, it will be an all out assault on whatever targets are around.  I don't really know of anywhere to shoot here, I will have to join a gun club or something.

My brother-in-law is going to western and I have a good friend that recently moved down here, so this is where we choose to live.  I am not teaching anymore, I have been teaching Pre-calc, Calc I, II, and Linear Algebra for 5 years, I am sort of burned out on school and academic research.  I actually recently skipped out on a PhD studying parallel optimization to start my own gardening business.  Things are really going well so far with the gardening business, we will see how the future turns out though.

Anyways, I am off to bed finally, hopefully pics tomorrow of the hardware... my buddy will drop the digi off when he is done.

pez

Here they are as promised...

My friend is still using the camera, so I had to use Janelle's, I really remember why I bought my own for the wedding, it is so hard to get a good pic on an old crappy camera...

Anyways, here are the crap shots I took just now, perhaps I will clean things and take some with my newer camera when I get it back.

The first attachment is for kicks.  I guess my shotty is a mossberg, slightly less off-brand, but still cheap as anything else though.

---

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/GunPics.jpg

It wouldn't be fair to keep making fun of Briney's missing pics if I didn't post a few of my own.  Here is my motley collection of pistols.


Such a loving family...
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/OctoberGuns1.jpg


First up is the smallest member of the collection, a Kahr P9 Elite.  I bought this a couple years ago when I got tired of lugging around my XD as a carry pistol in the summer.  It's hard to conceal that beast under a t-shirt.  This thing is incredibly small and lightweight, but it's still a dream to shoot.  You only get 8 rounds of 9MM though, but I'd rather have that than 12 rounds of .40S&W sitting at home.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/OctoberGuns2.jpg


This is the much older brother of your Mark I.  They're fairly similar, but the Mark I doesn't lock back after firing the last round.  If Michigan ever allows suppressors, I'd like to get a Mark III with an integrated suppressor.  They're dead sexy.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/OctoberGuns3.jpg


The XD is my favorite all-purpose pistol, and the only one I've ever had any work done on.  It was my sole carry pistol for about five years, although it typically only gets carried in the winter months these days.  I started shooting at Three Gun competitions this summer and used this as my pistol.  I had a trigger job done and installed a tighter barrel and heavier barrel spring.  I'd like to get an XDm (Spanky has one) or XD Service in 9mm with a 5" barrel next summer for Three Gun.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/OctoberGuns4.jpg


This is my collector's piece.  It's a Nazi-marked Walther P.38 that was brought back from Germany by a GI during World War II.  It's a solid gun and it still shoots flawlessly.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/OctoberGuns5.jpg


This is the oldest firearm I own.  It's a Colt Police Positive Special manufactured in 1910.  It's an incredibly clean specimen and it looks like it was manufactured yesterday.  Honestly, I wonder if this thing was reblued before it came into my hands?
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/OctoberGuns6.jpg


Last but not least, the twins.  The one on the left is mine, and I'm keeping the one on the right for my brother-in-law.  These are Kimber Eclipse 2 Custom 1911s.  I always thought 1911s were dead sexy.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/OctoberGuns7.jpg


-b0b
(...Briney, you're up!)

Is that Andrew?  I'll be damned.

What up Fatman, long time.  I see that you are out in CO, that is sweet.

I will have to let you know if I go out there, I have family now in Colorado Springs, and friends in Denver.

Where is your hardware?

pez

Oh sweet man, yeah definitely hit me up if you come out and we will have to grab a beer or something.

I sadly, do not own any guns...never been a big gun nut.  I however am in the process of picking up a handgun for some home defense, thanks to some advice from Bob and my co-workers.

So if and when I buy it, I'll make sure to post a few pics.

I'm pretty sure the size of your manhood is directly proportional to the number of firearms you own.


-b0b
(...just sayin'.)

Holy crap shizza!  Your time between saying you are going to post gun pics and actually doing it is legendary.

Figured I would add mine to this thread also.  (So the only ones not to post guns pics are wes and briney)

I have a Spingfield XD.  Shouldn't be that out of the ordinary as bob and pat have one.

Edit: almost forgot, mine is a .45 which is bigger than bob's XD...just sayin!

---

bob question my manhood again and I will post a picture of it.

Just saying.

The_Fat_Man wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 7:27pm:

bob question my manhood again and I will post a picture of it.

I hope you've got a macro lens.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/MacroLens.jpg

-b0b
(...ba dum cha!)

You just got...

http://www.killchrissy.com/images/hand_burn.jpg

I think they are better for keeping the queen of England out of your business, at least that is always my problem.

Stupid red-coats...

Other uses, sorting dishes, changing channels on TV, and making random cowboys fall off their horses.

Spanky and Bob, those XD's are awesome, they came out right after I got my HK, I am really impressed with them.  I have only shot an XD-40 once, I think it was the basic model.

pez

spanky wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 7:07pm:

Edit: almost forgot, mine is a .45 which is bigger than bob's XD...just sayin!

Your XD might be slightly larger, but mine has fired far, far more rounds than yours - and more accurately I might add.

Besides, I have twice as many .45s as you!


-b0b
(...isn't sure what that means.)

Brineygate ends!

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f368/Jasonbriney/guns-1.jpg

also...

Andrew!!! welcome back!

Hey, it only took you 186 days!  Nice collection, Briney!

Did you find a crazy sale on the 20rd AR mags or something?  How are you liking the MagPul mag?  I just started switching over to the windowed MagPul mags with ranger plates, and I'm a big fan.  They're inexpensive and very high quality.


-b0b
(...will post pics.  Eventually.)

This might help you guys who carry concealed.  There have been a few changes to the laws...be informed!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

X

I wasn't aware of how a CPL could carry non-concealed pretty much anywhere, bypassing both "banned zone" lists.  That's an interesting loophole.  Thanks Stewie!


-b0b
(...w00t!)

Yep, I also had a buddy stopped by a county officer who said a CPL holder couldn't open carry.

I knew that didn't sound right, so that's where I found this nifty summary.

And ya, that bypass is amazingly interesting.  However, if a place still forbids weapons, who have to abide...such as schools.  However with schools you can still carry in your vehicle.

X
(a law gee)

Quote:

Mich. obtains maximum CPL reciprocity 39 states with CPL laws will accept MI licenses Updated: Monday, 28 Nov 2011, 9:20 PM EST Published : Monday, 28 Nov 2011, 8:38 PM EST LANSING, Mich. (WOOD) - Michigan has obtained full reciprocity with every state that has a concealed pistol license (CPL) law, according to the Michigan Attorney General's Office. The Attorney General's Office announced in a release on Monday that it had reached reciprocity agreements with 39 states, meaning that every other state that has a concealed carry law will accept a Michigan CPL permit. In addition, Michigan will accept the permits from each of the other 39 states. Michigan is the only state to have ever obtained maximum reciprocity. "The right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental freedom enshrined in our Constitution," said Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette in the release. "I am proud to be an aggressive defender of our Second Amendment freedoms." Schuette reminded Michigan CPL holders to follow the respective laws of each state they visit and said that CPL holders from other states were responsible for following Michigan concealed carry regulations when in the state. One of the most significant recent changes in reciprocity was achieved when Wisconsin enacted reciprocity on Nov. 1, which is an important move for Michigan CPL holders from the Upper Peninsula. Schuette also said that if any other states create CPL laws, the Attorney General's Office will work to obtain reciprocity with those states. Michigan residents wishing to obtain a CPL must be at least 21 years old, have never been convicted of a felony, and passed a pistol training course, among other requirements. Anyone who has a CPL and is carrying a concealed weapon must disclose this to police officers if they are stopped. The states that share full reciprocity with Michigan are:     Alabama     Alaska     Arizona     Arkansas     Colorado     Delaware     Florida     Georgia     Idaho     Indiana     Iowa     Kansas     Kentucky     Louisiana     Maine     Mississippi     Missouri     Minnesota     Montana     Nebraska     Nevada     New Hampshire     New Mexico     North Carolina     North Dakota     Ohio     Oklahoma     Pennsylvania     South Carolina     South Dakota     Tennessee     Texas     Utah     Vermont [does not require permits for residents or nonresidents]     Virginia, Washington     West Virginia     Wisconsin     Wyoming The total number of states with concealed carry laws is 40, including Michigan.

You beat me to it, Stewie.  I was just coming here to post that.  ;p


-b0b
(...now, if we could only get national reciprocity!)

Quote:

(...now, if we could only get national reciprocity!)

Not with States like CA, IL, NY, and our lovable DC.

Well, national reciprocity wouldn't be valid in states that do not offer "shall issue" CCW permits.  It would, however, mandate that licenses from any shall issue state would be valid in any other shall issue state.  It passed the House two weeks ago, but the bill is expected to die in the Senate.


-b0b
(...super sad frowny face!)

I received my CPL a few months ago and planned to take a honeymoon trip to Tennessee. Since I was going to the Smokey mountains where there are bears and even more scary, hillbillies, I wanted to carry. Of course I got pulled over in Indiana. It was my first time getting pulled over with my CPL and I remembered to notify the officer that I have a CPL and the pistol is in the vehicle. He casually said "ok." Luckily he realized that I was on my honeymoon and wrote me a warning. The CPL probably helped out too because he knew that I was educated by knowing that I could travel through those states legally.
(BTW: Do you have to tell the office that you have a CPL if the pistol is not in the vehicle?)

While in Tennessee, I had a slight breakdown and took my truck to the local auto repair shop in the mountains. It was kind of scary like something out of a horror movie. There were about seven dirty guys that looked like they hadn't seen a woman in about a month and the shop was basically a junk yard. I had my wife with me so I was feeling a bit protective. Having my pistol with me was comforting. It all turned out fine and the people were really kind.

Disclosure rules vary by state, but in Michigan, you must disclose that you have a CCW permit regardless of whether or not you're carrying.

I was hit by a drunk driver several years back and was carrying at the time.  The police officer was totally cool about it.  Apparently, it's common enough these days that officers don't really care.


-b0b
(...schwing.)

My uncle from Denver told me that his son was pulled over and the officer asked to see his gun. He looked it over and complimented him on his Kimber compact then sent him on his way.

That's when I make a call to a lawyer and the press and file suit for an illegal stop!

At the very least, ask the officer to be censured for improper use police computer networks.

X

I doubt the stop was directly related to the guy having a CCW.  It was the end of the conversation, not the beginning.


-b0b
(...shrugs.)

Hey, are any of you guys interested in going to the gun show in Grand Rapids this weekend?  The Grand Rapids show is usually the best on in the state, and a rift between the show sponsor and the hosting facility is going to make this the last big show.

Be a part of history!  We'd be heading out around 10:00am Saturday morning, and admission is usually around $5.00 per person.


-b0b
(...let me know!)

Sadly I cannot make it as I will be protecting Laura from her crazy family at her Christmas party.

Bring me back something nice!

X

New toys!

A family member was looking at liquidating his firearms collection.  Meredith and I chipped in and bought a couple guns.  Here is Meredith's purchase:

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Henry22.jpg

She bought a Henry Golden Boy.  It's a beautiful tube-fed lever-action .22LR with a hexagonal barrel.  This particular model commemorates the centennial birthday of the Boy Scouts.  It's a beautiful gun and a fine shooter.


http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/RockRiverAR.jpg

I bought something a bit more modern.  You can never have too many AR-15s, so I picked up this beauty.  It's a Doublestar Arms lower receiver with a Rock River Arms flat-top upper receiver and an 18" barrel.  This model is built in a very similar configuration to my Bushmaster AR15, so I think this is going to be my "project gun" for 3 Gun competitions.  I'll likely keep the lower receiver and stock intact and replace the upper receiver with one of these...

http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_24&products_id=397

Sadly, this purchase will have to wait until I buy a new semi-automatic shotgun.  My trusty pump-action Remington 870 is just too slow for competitive use.


-b0b
(...yay guns!)

Is your sling a one hinge or two?

I use to think the two was better...but I now have come to view the one as much more tactical.

Actually, it's a three-point harness.  If one is good and two is better, then three is obviously even more epic!

I've been buying UTG slings from Amazon.  They're dirt cheap and surprisingly high quality.  I've got one on my Bushmaster, a second on the new Doublestar AR, and a third on my Remington 870.  They're a whopping $12.00 on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JIJ6Y4/ref=oh_o02_s00_i01_details

I generally try not to "cheap out" on gun accessories, but again, these are incredibly good quality for the price.  I've got a similar three-point harness I picked up at Gander Mountain for $45 and it is much, much lower quality.

Here's a good picture of some random guy wearing a three-point harness:

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/ThreePointSling.jpg

I find them to be much more comfortable than a one-point or two-point, not to mention a lot more versatile.  You can carry your gun right in front of you and have it up and ready to go in a matter of seconds.  This is a big deal for 3 Gun matches, in which you might have to start with your pistol and quickly transition to your rifle.



-b0b
(...besides, it looks tacticool!)

http://gma.yahoo.com/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder-911-operators-okay-091106413.html


Quote:

A young Oklahoma mother shot and killed an intruder to protect her 3-month-old baby on New Year's Eve, less than a week after the baby's father died of cancer. Sarah McKinley says that a week earlier a man named Justin Martin dropped by on the day of her husband's funeral, claiming that he was a neighbor who wanted to say hello. The 18-year-old Oklahoma City area woman did not let him into her home that day. On New Year's Eve Martin returned with another man, Dustin Stewart, and this time was armed with a 12-inch hunting knife. The two soon began trying to break into McKinley's home. As one of the men was going from door to door outside her home trying to gain entry, McKinley called 911 and grabbed her 12-gauge shotgun. McKinley told ABC News Oklahoma City affiliate KOCO that she quickly got her 12 gauge, went into her bedroom and got a pistol, put the bottle in the baby's mouth and called 911. "I've got two guns in my hand -- is it okay to shoot him if he comes in this door?" the young mother asked the 911 dispatcher. "I'm here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?" The 911 dispatcher confirmed with McKinley that the doors to her home were locked as she asked again if it was okay to shoot the intruder if he were to come through her door. "I can't tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby," the dispatcher told her. McKinley was on the phone with 911 for a total of 21 minutes. When Martin kicked in the door and came after her with the knife, the teen mom shot and killed the 24-year-old. Police are calling the shooting justified.

21 minutes and still no police!!!! wow...

I wonder if there are factors that make this ok?

- She's a woman

- She's alone

- She has a baby

Does anyone else think that this may have been different if any of these were the opposite?

And yes, 21 minutes is exactly why I have multiple fire arms in my domicile.  Heck, you can't even make the old joke of "when seconds count, the police are minutes away" anymore...we're going to have to replace minutes with just the ability or want to make it to your place.  I really have to start carrying with me full time.

X
(thanks for the article)

Oklahoma has castle doctrine.  As soon as the bad guy entered the house, he was fair game.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69782


-b0b
(...yay!)

More places should have castle doctrine.

More gun pr0n!



First up is my collection of AR-15s.  At the top is my new DPMS 16" AR with a flat-top receiver.  In the middle is a Bushmaster AR with an 18", and at the bottom is my mid-ban Olympic Arms AR with a 20" barrel.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/GunReview1.jpg

Here are the Russian guns.  At top is a bolt-action Mosin Nagant 91/30 chambered in 7.62x54R.  Below that is the paratrooper/tanker model of the same gun, called an M44.  The next two guns are Chinese Army of the SKS semi-automatic rifle, chambered in 7.62x39mm.  Finally, at the bottom is the well-known AK-47, along with a bayonet.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/GunReview2.jpg

Here are a couple of traditional American guns.  The top gun is a Marlin 336A lever-action rifle, chambered in .30-30 Winchester.  It has a crappy Bushnell scope on it that I need to ditch.  Next up is a Henry Golden Boy lever-action in .22LR.  It is followed by the ubiquitous Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic.  Finally, the first gun I ever bought (on my 18th birthday!), a Savage 954 semi-automatic rifle in .22LR.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/GunReview3.jpg

Finally, two of my three shotguns.  The one on top was a hand-me-down that originally belonged to my grandfather.  He tried shooting 3 1/2" magnum shells through it and broke the stock, hence the hardcore electrical tape modification.  I don't want to ruin the "character" of the gun, so I haven't replaced the stock.  This one is just a safe queen these days.  Below it is my newish Remington 870 Tactical.  I have another Remington 870 20ga that is currently on loan to my mother-in-law for a home defense gun.
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/GunReview4.jpg


-b0b
(...will have some AR disassembly pics in a couple days.)

My collection. Some tactical, some hunting.
From the top:
Ruger 10/22
Kimber Pepper Blaster (Wife's)
Remington R-15 .223
Springfield XDm .40
Remington 700 XCR TLR .300 Win Mag
Remington 11-87 12-gauge
Remington 4-10

My next purchase is going to be a nice scope for my 300. The one on there is a Nikkon Buckmaster. Puke!

I also want a small revolver for carry. The XDm is a bit heavy.

---

Thanks for sharing pics, Stick!  I love the AR.  It looks like Remington was smart enough to include a low-profile gas block with their flat-top receiver, which is something I can't say for Rock River Arms.  What kind of optic do you have on it?

I'm also a big fan of the Remington 700.  I've been drooling over them for some time now, and hope to pick one up later this year.


-b0b
(...guns!)

The optic is the Burris XTS 135. I can hit a steel plate about the size of a 8.5" x 11" piece of paper at 180 yards with this red dot while standing up, about 50% of my shots hit. 223 is an amazing round.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/xts135.html

Fantastic.  I've been looking at the Burris XTR and the Viper Vortex PST for my AR.  I need a good 1-4x scope for 3 gun.  Generally speaking, we don't have many shots that exceed 150 yards, which is a good thing because I'm getting a bit rusty.


-b0b
(...needs to hit the range!)

http://www.wwmt.com/shared/newsroom/top-stories/stories/wwmt_vid_437.shtml#.T2tFbZDIG5A.facebook

I've been watching this bill kick back and forth in MI.  This would be great for us!

X

Same here.  I'm not super-excited about the additional nine-hour training requirement, but I'll take what I can get.

By the way, did you see that dead sexy Springfield Armory XDm in the video?


-b0b
(...drools!)

Offff course!

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10941--,00.html

Maybe someone can help.

If I am open carrying, am I legally obligated to show my CPL AND my drivers ID?

If I'm concealed carrying, do I have to always have my driver's ID on me?

I hate how this doesn't have a law associated with it...just a set of rules.

I may have partially answered my own question:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28tqivtw453edwuk45ym1gdm3f%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-425f

For the purpose of my question above, I'm talking about NOT being in a vehicle.

X wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 6:55am:

If I am open carrying, am I legally obligated to show my CPL AND my drivers ID?

The way the law is written, you must notify the officer any time you're stopped if you're carrying a pistol, regardless of where/how you're carrying.

You are only obligated to carry your CPL card when you're carrying concealed.  Keep in mind that getting into a vehicle in Michigan with a firearm that isn't properly stored constitutes "concealed carry."



Quote:

If I'm concealed carrying, do I have to always have my driver's ID on me?

Yes.  You must provide both your CPL and your driver's license upon request.  On a side not, there was a court case awhile back in which a judge ruled that furnishing your CPL to an officer doesn't constitute "immediate disclosure," so make sure you verbally inform the officer the moment they make contact with you.


-b0b
(...is not a lawyer.)

I thought you didn't have to show any identification if you are stopped walking while open carrying because you haven't broken any laws.

Is it possible to open carry in a vehicle?

What is the most accessible/shoot-ready way to open carry an assault rifle?

Stick wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 3:00pm:

I thought you didn't have to show any identification if you are stopped walking while open carrying because you haven't broken any laws.

Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada requires you to identify yourself during a "police investigation".  You do not have to produce ID.  This is a general requirement and is wholly separate from a CCW issue.

Open carry is a huge bag of worms these days.  I am constantly seeing reports of people being arrested for "disturbing the peace" or some other ridiculous charge.  Although I don't personally carry openly in public (OpSec and all that), I'd love to see open carry rights affirmed throughout the country.



Quote:

Is it possible to open carry in a vehicle?

Not in Michigan.  In most states, anything that constitutes open carry on the street would be just fine in a vehicle.  In Michigan, if the firearm isn't properly secured for transport (e.g. in a locked container with ammo separated), it is considered concealed.



Quote:

What is the most accessible/shoot-ready way to open carry an assault rifle?

Tactical sling, round in the chamber, safety off?  I'm not aware of any requirements for the condition of the rifle itself, so long as you're not openly menacing/threatening people.

That said, you're going to get an awful lot of attention walking down Main Street with your rifle, let along in "condition one".


-b0b
(...needs to open carry a Barrett some day.)

Well now, check out this MSP Legal Update 86 - http://miopencarry.org/sites/default/files/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

The very last page, last column.

I might carry this around if I open carry.

Also, Hibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada is only for states that have "stop-and-identify" laws which MI does not.

"Nevada had a stop and identify law, which was used to convict him. The Supreme Court determined that these laws are constitutional, so long as they require officers to have reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

X

Quote:

Not in Michigan.  In most states, anything that constitutes open carry on the street would be just fine in a vehicle.  In Michigan, if the firearm isn't properly secured for transport (e.g. in a locked container with ammo separated), it is considered concealed.

Oh, that's right. Michigan is pretty strict about transporting. I was in Colorado prairie dog hunting/killing with the ar-15's in the truck ready to shoot, driving from field to field, then pointing it out the window and shooting at them. It was so much fun.

You came to Colorado and didn't hit me up Stick? Shame on you

Too much talk, not enough gun pr0n!

I've been participating in the Kalamazoo chapter of the Friends of the NRA for several months now, and Meredith and I volunteered at their annual banquet (their biggest annual fundraiser) on Thursday evening.  The Friends of the NRA is a charity that is attached to the NRA.  They raise funds for firearms-related programs for kids (e.g. hunter safety, firearms safety, 4H and Boy Scout shooting programs), women (personal safety, CCW, defense in the home, etc) and a variety of shooting sports and conservation programs.

At the end of the banquet, I ended up winning the door prize.  I scored a Weatherby SA-08 semi-automatic shotgun chambered in 12 gauge.  I had a chance to shoot it on Sunday and it proved to be a very capable firearm.  It loaded smoothly and I didn't run into a single hiccup.  The operation is a bit different than other semi-automatic shotguns I've fired, so it'll take a little while to get used to the controls.

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Weatherby1.jpg

http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Weatherby2.jpg

Since I can't get a decent picture to save my life, here's a stock photo:
http://www.TWNCommunications.Net/Other/Weatherby3.jpg

The downside to the SA-08 is that it's not a terribly common firearm, so there are absolutely no third-party products available and virtually no accessories available direct from the factory.  I'd like to add a magazine extension, but I'd have to do some serious Dremel work to get a proper fit from an extension manufactured for a totally different gun.  I'd also like to get a shorter barrel (22 to 24" instead of 28"), but nobody makes them, so I'd have to pay a gunsmith to cut the factory barrel down.

Either way, it was free, so I'm certainly not complaining.  It's a fun gun to shoot and I look forward to using it for clays.


-b0b
(...w00t!)

That's awesome!  Only the NRA would give out a shotgun as a door prize!  Good job.

X

Quote:

Michigan House Committee to Consider Repeal of Handgun Permit-to-Purchase and Registration The Michigan House Judiciary Committee will have a hearing on Thursday, May 17, to review an important and long-overdue bill that would eliminate the state handgun “permit-to-purchase” and registration requirements.  This committee will hear House Bill 5225 and consider this proposed amendment language that will be used as a substitute for HB 5225 when this hearing takes place. HB 5225, introduced by state Representative Paul Opsommer (R-93), would abolish the bureaucratic “permit-to-purchase” handguns which became obsolete when the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) went into effect in 1998.  Under the current state system, gun buyers must apply with their local law enforcement agency and pass a written test before being authorized to buy a handgun.  This “permit” is valid for only one gun and it expires after ten days.  Since 1998, federal law has required a national criminal records check for the purchase of any firearm from any gun dealer in every state.  Some of the key points of the proposed amendment to HB 5225 are: •      Repeal the state requirement for someone to ask for police permission to purchase a firearm by traveling to a local police station and obtaining a permit to purchase. •      Repeal the requirement to register a completely legally purchased and owned firearm by a law-abiding citizen to be registered with the government through the police. •      Adopt the use of the federally-funded National Instant Criminal Background Check System. •      Default to the federal standard of prohibited persons and each purchase would still require a background check. •      Cut Michigan’s costs by using the federally-administered instant background check system and eliminate wasted man-hours of tracking lawful gun owners in Michigan. The NRA has been working diligently to repeal this antiquated, costly and unnecessary obstacle for gun owners and has coordinated with several state Representatives to produce new language for HB 5225.

This is the fantastic news, and I hope the NRA can get the support it needs to pass this bill!  Even with a CCW license, I still have to register my pistols with the state, and that's absurd.


-b0b
(...at least the "safety inspection" is no longer required.)

Hey,

Did you guys see that HB 5225 was enrolled, we still may be able to get rid of the ptp.

pez

I've been watching it pretty closely.  With a CCW permit, I don't need the purchase permit, but I still have to register the purchase with the Michigan State Police.  That irks me.  Sadly, this bill doesn't help in that regard.

Based on the last Senate version of the bill (I can't find the enrolled version yet), it appears the following changes are being made:

[list bull-blackball]

You don't need a purchase permit to buy a pistol from an FFL (e.g. anybody that sells guns as a business).  You still need a purchase permit to make a face-to-face purchase (e.g. from another individual that isn't an FFL).

If you buy from an FFL, they'll give you two copies of the purchase record.  You get to keep one and you have to present the other to your chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) within 10 days.  Failure to do so will result in a civil infraction with a $250 fine and notification of the state police (and, if appropriate, the CCW board).

For non-FFL purchases:

You can get a purchase permit from any CLEO, not just the one in your town.  This is awesome because some CLEOs were dicks.

Legal aliens can apply for permits, whereas it was restricted to U.S. citizens previously.

You no longer need to take the retarded pistol safety exam to get a permit.

Purchase permits will be valid for 30 days instead of 10 days.  I wish it was extended to 90 days, but this is good news.  On at least one occasion, I had to apply for a new permit because my pistol had to be ordered into the store and it took longer than 10 days.

The number of copies of the permit was reduced from four to three.  It's still a civil infraction punishable by a $250 fine if you fail to return two of the three copies once you've made the purchase.  Instead of mailing the fourth copy to the state police, your CLEO now must submit their copy electronically.

You are still required to carry your purchase permit along with the pistol for 30 days after your purchase the pistol.  I think absolutely nobody knows about this requirement.

The CLEO no longer has to provide a safety brochure.  I honestly don't recall ever receiving one, but it's been several years since I needed a purchase permit.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billengrossed/House/pdf/2011-HEBS-5225.pdf


-b0b
(...definitely a positive step!)

That is what I noted, one can buy without a ptp at an FFL and then you can also mail in the copy of the paperwork you get from the police.  That significantly changes all the running around to buy a gun.

Stupid gun control debates have been in the news lately and, gladly IMO, is starting to slide out of the spotlight. I found this to be an interesting video.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/kKpLhNiC8zg

Very neat video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJs3OWoxJIM

From description:

"In 1961 Dad enslisted in the Marine Corps and was issued this M1 Garand. A Springfield Armory M1 Serial Number 1380819. Dad has been looking for it for over 50 years. I found it and purchased it from the Civilian Marksmanship Program in secret. It was a One in Six Millon chance to find it. I found it only fitting that a U.S. Marine should give it back to Dad. I love you Dad."

X

Wow, that really was a one in a bajillion chance.  I wonder how he figured out CMP had it?


-b0b
(...they go through M1's like nobody's business.)

Quote:

Growing number of firearm companies refuse to do business with New York, other states over unconstitutional gun laws Written By: Bob - Feb• 13•13 New York Governor Andrew Cuomo attempted to make a name for himself to further his 2016 Democratic Presidential nomination hopes in the wake of the Sandy Hook school shooting, and forced a blatantly unconstitutional NY SAFE Act through the NY Legislature to promote his aspirations. The law—which violates different provisions of the New York State and U.S. Constitutions—was met with promises of mass civil disobedience by gun owners who will not register their firearms, and by derision by New York State law enforcement agencies. Similar laws have been proposed in Illinois, California, Maryland, and Colorado, among others. In response to the law, a number of firearms industry companies have taken steps to ensure that the State of New York and other states have to live by the same standards it would impose upon it’s own citizens. Larue Tactical, Olympic Arms, Templar Custom and Extreme Firepower have all created policies that exclude New York State government agencies, including law enforcement, from purchasing firearms or firearm accessories not available to  NY citizens due to this draconian law. These are largely symbolic protests at this moment, but if major manufactures such as Glock, Sig Sauer, Ruger, and Smith & Wesson join in taking a stand, and refuse to provide firearms and magazines that vengeful states would deny their citizens equal rights under the law, then New York and other states attacking the Constitution could find themselves in difficult situation.

http://fourthamendment.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&title=the_fourth_circuit_takes_the_charlotte_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

An interesting story that is an offshoot of Terry v. OH (provided police with reasonable suspicious).  It is now not legal for police to stop open carry gun owners to be stopped and questions just because they are open carrying (in OC states).

X

X wrote on Feb 28^th, 2013 at 1:54pm:

http://fourthamendment.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&title=the_fourth_circuit_takes_the_charlotte_m&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 An interesting story that is an offshoot of Terry v. OH (provided police with reasonable suspicious).  It is now not legal for police to stop open carry gun owners to be stopped and questions just because they are open carrying (in OC states). X

That was a very interesting read.  It's nice to see a court uphold the fourth amendment, which is seemingly less and less relevant with every passing day.

The only time I've seen(not in person) someone stopped while open carrying was when the firearm is a common fully auto weapon. Is the stop merited at that point for reasonable suspicion of being fully auto? The person submitted to the officer that it was a reasonable suspicion and let the officer inspect the weapon.

I would think no. Similarly to when an officer thinks you might have a dead body in the trunk of your car because that's where most people put dead bodies. Unless there is some reason to suspect other than stereotyping, no.

It doesn't matter whether it appears to be fully auto, because being fully automatic does not mean it's illegal.  Based on the fourth circuit's opinion above, the mere possibility of something being illegal doesn't constitute reasonable suspicion.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not this winds up in the Supreme Court.


-b0b
(...and everybody knows how predictable they are.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9wahCTz08

Here is that video. Near the end the officer claims that the citizen admitted that his suspicion warranted the inspection. What a joke.