Since we will be going to war with Iran soon, I thought I would just get a thread going so we can discuss.

These statements have enraged the West. Iran's president said that the Holocaust never happened.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/index.html

These are statements made by Israel regarding Iran's nuclear program

Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran


Quote:

Defence sources in Israel believe the end of March to be the “point of no return” after which Iran will have the technical expertise to enrich uranium in sufficient quantities to build a nuclear warhead in two to four years. “Israel — and not only Israel — cannot accept a nuclear Iran,” Sharon warned recently. “We have the ability to deal with this and we’re making all the necessary preparations to be ready for such a situation.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1920074,00.html

This is Russia's president calling Russia defender of the Muslim world.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/12/muslimfriend.shtml

Anyone see a pattern happening yet?

Iran's new president is insane, and pissing off the world. Isreal is going to strike them like they did in Iraq... and Russia says they are defenders of the Islamic world, while the United States will back Israel always.

Keep in mind that all of Iran's weapons and nuclear material comes from the Russian Federation. They would not like their investment destroyed.

~BRiney

(...looks out for WWIII)

Funny and I thought Russia attacked Afganistan a while back...btw...Afganistan = Muslim country.

"Protectors of the Muslim world"  must be like "Homeland Security...protecting Americans from themselves"

X

This sounds like justification to buy more guns.

-b0b
(...yay!)

Language is getting harsher! I love watching how the "big dogs" spar back and forth with their regulations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060113/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear

Looks like the EU will be more or less behind any action that the UN Security Council recommends. Won't be long before Isreal and the US are talking about strike plans. Even though Isreal has finalized theirs.

Another scary thought is the new U.S. nuclear policy that was drafted after 9/11 and presented to Congress. Here is a couple points from the current version.


Quote:

Pre-emptive nuclear strikes against non-nuclear adversaries, for purposes which include the following: (Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations, Page III-2): * For rapid and favorable war termination on US terms. * To ensure success of US and multinational operations. * To demonstrate US intent and capability to use nuclear weapons to deter adversary use of WMD. * Against an adversary intending to use WMD against US, multinational, or alliance forces. The Nuclear Posture Review document states that: *US nuclear forces will now be used to dissuade adversaries from undertaking military programs or operations that could threaten U.S. interests or those of allies and friends. * Nuclear weapons could be employed against targets able to withstand non-nuclear attack.

So yea. Not a fun thought. I know that its political suicide to even think of using nukes, but I just thought that I would point out the options available.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/14/wiran14.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/14/ixworld.html


Quote:

The most remarkable aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's piety is his devotion to the Hidden Imam, the Messiah-like figure of Shia Islam, and the president's belief that his government must prepare the country for his return. One of the first acts of Mr Ahmadinejad's government was to donate about £10 million to the Jamkaran mosque, a popular pilgrimage site where the pious come to drop messages to the Hidden Imam into a holy well. All streams of Islam believe in a divine saviour, known as the Mahdi, who will appear at the End of Days. A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran. Iran's dominant "Twelver" sect believes this will be Mohammed ibn Hasan, regarded as the 12th Imam, or righteous descendant of the Prophet Mohammad. He is said to have gone into "occlusion" in the ninth century, at the age of five. His return will be preceded by cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed. After a cataclysmic confrontation with evil and darkness, the Mahdi will lead the world to an era of universal peace. This is similar to the Christian vision of the Apocalypse. Indeed, the Hidden Imam is expected to return in the company of Jesus.

Interesting stuff here.

This is the first I've heard of a Muslim sect believing the 12th Imam will return in the company of Jesus, which is kind of odd.  For what it's worth, Muslims believe Jesus Christ was a prophet, although they deny his deity.

This is a great "foot in the door" for witnessing, by the way.

-b0b
(...rocks out.)

Just like any religion...Islam has it's sects too.  Albiet dramtically different views on who does what.  I would think this would be easy to solve.  Go to Koran...read Koran...see who comes when....see who top cheese is under Alah...problem solved.  Although Christianity would be much better is we did something like this for all its petty squabbles instead of splitting up churches.  By the way, did you know (I had just found this out a month ago), that Mormons have 2 sects.  That's right...after Joseph Smith died...his first wife and son, Joseph Smith III, said the "promised land" was in GA.  However, many people liked Brigham Young more, who said Utah was said land.  There the "one, true living church set up by God"....was split.  Just a tid bit for all us Mormon lovers/laughers/haters out there.

X
(Mormons = Islam = hilarity!)

Here we go again...this is just perfect now that the Patriot Act is ending, the Super Bowl is coming up just when it expires...and now we have Iran, Iraq, and Afganistan to deal with...now here it comes.  These links were taken from Drudge...where I was half expected to see the main story be how two American Idol contestents were arrested by police.

BIN LADEN: WE ARE READY TO ATTACK YOU AGAIN, BUT....
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/19/D8F7SAMGB.html


**Bin Laden Offers Truce
**Full tape was 10 minutes long
**CLAIM: al-Qaida making preparations for attacks in USA
**TAUNT: Laden says heightened security measures are not reason no attacks since 9/11
**'Operations that need preparations, and you will see them'
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/593298A0-3C1A-4EB4-B29D-EA1A9678D922.htm

Briney I tried to call you about this but one ring and it goes to voice mail.

X
(We need to start planning again)

Dude holy crap. I got ya Patrick, my phone was off.

Hillary fricking Clinton is even saying Bush is downplaying Iran and we need to impose sanctions.

France is defending their right to use nuclear weapons against terrorist states. WTF, when did nuclear weapons become an option. There is too much talk of using them these days.

France is only in a hurry to use their nukes because they think it'll make the rest of the world stop viewing them as a bunch of pansies.

-b0b
(...thinks so.)

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3600730.html

Iran getting smart...leading us deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole!

X

Iran has a program that will go into effect soon that will allow other countries to buy oil from them using the Euro. Currently OPEC uses the dollar to buy, sell and value oil. The United States bargained with Saudia Arabia back in the early 70's to arrange this. The US would support the Saudi government in exchange for only accepting dollars as payment for oil. The other OPEC countries quickly followed suit. This meant that any country that wanted oil would have to maintain a stock of American money. Since demand for oil has been growing like crazy, the demand for the dollar has also gone up. Basically oil is the new gold that is backing our economy because countries that want oil must use the US dollar to purchase what oil they need. This promotes trading and exchange of our currency in the global market, and is key to keeping our economy stable.

Iraq back in 2000 started putting plans into action to switch to the Euro in regards to oil sales. It never fully matured or taken seriously by other countries because it was started by our dear friend Saddam Hussein. After the American invasion any chance of this plan was crushed. Now we have Iran about to start their own oil exchange, and all of a sudden there is this intense urgency to curb Iran's nuclear program. BS. America needs to protect its empire, and it can't have the 4th largest oil exporter switch to a different currency. This would let other countries start to sell their stockpiles of the dollar and they could switch over to the Euro. All it takes is one country to start buying oil with the Euro and many others will soon follow. As the dollar depreciates in value, we can say hello to inflation in the United States.

The Iranian Oil exchange program is scheduled to start up sometime in March of 2006. Interesting how that fits into the current timeline for military hostilities against Iran. I think this is why Iran's president has been so boisterous towards Western countries. He has a massive amount of leverage. Already he has said if the UN emposes sanctions on Iran, he could possibly stop oil exports altogether, crippling world oil production.

Personally, I think the US is heading for a major conflict, followed by a pretty deep depression and/or the eventual collapse of America as we know it.

Plus, we are overdue for a "terrorist attack."

~BRiney

(...is avoiding Detroit on the Superbowl due to possible nuclear fire)

I'm going to have to disagree with you on certain points here, Briney.

While I agree it's true that using the dollar is helpful for the US, I disagree that the dollar "is the new gold".  First of all, the US could go bankrupt at any time if the inernational bankers called up the loans the federal govt owes them.  This has been done on purpose and as such the feds have given away some "federal land and state parks" among those is the Grand Canyon!  So our American land has been turned over to inernational bankers as collateral.  Also, gold will be the only gold from now till the end of time.  Third, the dollar, while experiencing better results than the pound, peso, yen, and all others; has been decreasing in value since the 1980s.  This has allowed foreign investors, not to mention Japan and CHINA!, to procure some of our debt.  This, in my humble opinion, is an act of treason.  But I digress.  The dollar is not even worth a dollar and it's competition with the euro is coming about.  With the growing power of the EU, as well as US money following away to Mexico, the dollar is only worth, I believe right now, 86 cents for every dollar.  Remember, last summer of '05, where it fell as sharp as 63 cents for every dollar.  This was done in order to allow the EU to grab more countires when they were annexing, basically, other countries.  When they were done for a time being, think of it as the end of a Risk(c) turn, the dollar went back up quickly.  While this was done purposely by the federal reserve, which is neither federal nor have any reserves, gold has never decreased so sharply in value.  If anything gold, even when it has dipped in value, has risen faster and farther than any investment in the entire history of the world.  I believe the only thing that would compete with the value of gold would be, and I think I'm correct on this but do correct me if I'm wrong, is if someone were to find out hwo to make platinum which would be a vitale component in the making of hydrogen fuel cells.  Even still, gold is the top thing to invest in if you were, let's say, to want to make money.

Also, I believe the move you describe here just shows you even more that Iran is being controlled by a leader who's an operative.  This man, who if you look at the history of, has taken the place of a moderate, good, and elected leader who was thrown out of power.  He has said all the wrong things, exterminate Israel, the Holocost didn't happen, etc.  He has done all the wrong things, such as this.  This will hurt his economy more than anything because the dollar will stay high even if he does this.  If this man isn't an operative then he should go down in history as being the worst country leader of all time.

X

I found and article on the subject Patrick. It's a good read.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_whi_060123_iran_92s_oil_exchange_.htm


Quote:

America monopolizes the oil trade. Oil is denominated in dollars and sold on either the NYMEX or London’s International Petroleum Exchange (IPE), both owned by Americans. This forces the central banks around the world to maintain huge stockpiles of dollars even though the greenback is currently underwritten by $8 trillion of debt and even though the Bush administration has said that it will perpetuate the deficit-producing tax cuts. America’s currency monopoly is the perfect pyramid-scheme. As long as nations are forced to buy oil in dollars, the United States can continue its profligate spending with impunity. (The dollar now accounts for 68% of global currency reserves up from 51% just a decade ago) The only threat to this strategy is the prospect of competition from an independent oil exchange; forcing the faltering dollar to go nose-to-nose with a more stable (debt-free) currency such as the euro. That would compel central banks to diversify their holdings, sending billions of dollars back to America and ensuring a devastating cycle of hyper-inflation.

MediaMaster wrote on Jan 21^st, 2006 at 5:55am:

Already he has said if the UN emposes sanctions on Iran, he could possibly stop oil exports altogether, crippling world oil production.

He's bluffing, and he's doing a poor job of it.  Iran can't cut off their oil exports without bringing their economy to a screeching halt.

Sure, oil commodities would go through the roof, but it wouldn't kill America (assuming it was short term).  However, Iran would go bankrupt practically overnight.  Their economy absolutely depends on selling oil to America and they know it.

-b0b
(...would like to see some hard facts.)

looks like Briney is correct, there was news all over the internet today of some weapons plans purchased by Iran.

Its sad to say this but I want the US to be attacked again before we head to action against another middle eastern country.  Intel about a document purchased on the "black market" is kinda hard to prove and hard to prove that the document contains any weapon building plans.  I want these found documents to be released to the public so that we may see the evidence.

Yea I don't see this circumstantial evidence being gathered by the US and the EU moving opinion in the US enough to warrant another war in the Middle East. The plans were just on how to make parts that could only be used for a nuclear weapon. I feel that the only way we can continue taking over other countries is we need another terrorist attack in the US. The presidents approval rating has been hovering in the 30-40% range and 2/3 of Americans think that America is not going in a good direction. Another large attack on this country will unite us again against whatever enemy the Government names. If it is large enough perhaps there would be some form of Martial Law in effect.

If it is Biological, Martial Law would be declared to restrict travel. Imagine if there was a delivery system in place at the Super Bowl that had a deadly airborne disease in it. The results would be devastating because people would take that disease home with them all over the country. All state borders would have to be closed and strict curfews enforced.

Imagine if a nuclear device was detonated at the Super Bowl. The instantaneous loss of life from mostly white suburbia would enrage the nation. Attacking one of our core pastimes would basically put us on the warpath. Plus downtown detroit is rundown and rotting and a blast there would only clear the way for Federal emergency money to rebuild the "slums" into nicer areas. Look at what happened in New Orleans. All those flood-ravaged areas have to rebuilt, and 80% of the population will not be returning.

All I am saying is learn from history. Hitler had his cronies burn down the Riechstag, and blamed it on the Communists, labeling them terrorists. He got Parliament to vote him brand new powers that eventually made him Dictator.

Star Wars III actually showed this too. Palpatine got into power because of the Seperatist (terrorist) threat. He created the Seperatist as enemies to attack the Repubic. When he declared himself Emperor, Senator Padme (hot) said "So this is how democracy dies... with thunderous applause."  

We already have our enemy... Terrorism. In the first place that is such a broad enemy with rediculous motives. "They are attacking America because they hate our freedom." Give me a freakin break. Anyone who buys into that BS has to have the intelligence of an 8-year old. And with terrorists as the enemy, with no end in sight, our fearless leader can engage whatever country in the Middle East that he wants.

Look out for it though, fellas. The next big terror attack in the US is going to change everything. Please don't buy into whatever Bush will call for afterwards.

~BRiney

PS. Im just using the Super Bowl as an example because

1. It's  the perfect target
2. I'm a paranoid SOB living in Detroit.

So yea, the world keeps getting more interesting. the IAEA referred Iran to the UN security counsil. Iran's leader responding by ordering his country to stop all cooperation with the IAEA. He also ordered full scale enrichment of uranium. Now the referral doesnt mean any action will be taking place soon. We still have about a month before the security counsil would convene to discuss the matter. Russia and China only backed the referral if Iran was given a month to rethink their position.

Lets not forget Israel's threat of military action by the end of March. This cooincides with when some decisions might be made by the Security council.

Also, 4 embassies in Syria were torched today because of cartoons with blasphemous depictions of the prophet Mohammed that have been circulating for a while in European newspapers. This is pretty crazy, but I can understand their point of view. Drawings or depictions of Mohammed are prohibited and here we are with cartoons showing him as a terrorist. Not cool. Its insane to watch how this escalated so quickly, I bet those cartoonists aren't feeling to good about now.

About those cartoons.  They may not have been "cool" but that's just too damn bad.  Muslims do not have some special right that protects their religion from being "insulted."  The fact that they have to go around calling for the murder of westerners and destroying property, does not lend any credit to the notion that these groups of people are peaceful.  They need to grow up.

pangulo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2006 at 7:25pm:

About those cartoons.  They may not have been "cool" but that's just too damn bad.  Muslims do not have some special right that protects their religion from being "insulted."  The fact that they have to go around calling for the murder of westerners and destroying property, does not lend any credit to the notion that these groups of people are peaceful.  They need to grow up.

That's a massive +1.  If you're unhappy about a cartoon calling your deity a terrorist, you probably shouldn't respond with terrorism.  Just an idea.

-b0b
(...doesn't understand the logic.)

Things are really getting out of hand. Iran has cut all economic ties with Denmark, and is considering the same with other EU contries that printed the cartoon.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-02-06T174517Z_01_L06357511_RTRUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-CARTOONS-IRAN.xml&rpc=22

How far is this going to go?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FCE073DD-7F1B-4714-95F0-DD1F354F1D9A.htm


Quote:

Iran's largest selling newspaper has announced it is holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad. "It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust," Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper, which is published by Tehran's conservative-run municipality, said on Monday. He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression. "The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let's see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons," he asserted. Iran's fiercely anti-Israeli regime is supportive of so-called Holocaust revisionist historians, who maintain the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as well as other groups during World War II has been either invented or exaggerated.

Hey, I kinda agree here. Lets see if Western papers will pick up some of these cartoons.

Why?  Cartoons about the holocaust have been done before.  In this instance, the political speech component is tit-for-tat, having little to do with the actual event.  If I was an editor, the image and the speech don't go hand in hand (I'm generally saying this with an assumption on what an actual cartoon would depict).  Therefore, I'd probably not print it.

In other news*, Pakistan's Medical Association is boycotting drugs from Europe.  It kind of reminds me of the commercial where the patient doesn't want any organs from blacks, jews, hispanics, gays, left handed people, Star Wars geeks, etc.  Oh well, a few less jihadists to worry about then!  Now, if we can only get them to boycott the use of other Western stuff like computers, C-4, airplanes, and bullets.

Well, I'm glad that I don't live in Pakistan.  Actually, I would be glad I didn't live in Pakistan even if they weren't boycotting European drugs.

*http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/02/06/afx2501761.html

Pakistan can suck it.

-b0b
(...nods nods.)

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1139395531778&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull



Quote:

The United States will present a 30-day ultimatum to the UN Security Council this week, the Washington Post reported Saturday, calling on Iran to cease with its nuclear program. It was reported however, that the US would not request further economic sanctions on Iran.

déjà vu anyone?

Shoot why should we try and try something that might work and lead to other options?!

Not to mention this will fully turn the rest of the world against us.  I think even the Etheopians might be against us now.

X

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1724473,00.html


Quote:

According to Time magazine, the US plans to present the security council with evidence that Iran is designing a crude nuclear bomb, like the one dropped on Nagasaki in 1945. The evidence will be in the form of blueprints that the US said were found on a laptop belonging to an Iranian nuclear engineer, and obtained by the CIA in 2004. However, any such presentation will bring back memories of a similar briefing in February 2003 in which Colin Powell, then US secretary of state, laid out evidence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, which proved not to exist.

~Briney

(...gets out the popcorn)

Pass the popcorn.

-b0b
(...thinks this is about to get interesting.)

http://smh.com.au/news/world/iranian-negotiator-boasts-of-fooling-europeans/2006/03/05/1141493547376.html



Quote:

THE man who for two years led Iran's nuclear negotiations has laid out in unprecedented detail how the regime took advantage of talks with Britain, France and Germany to forge ahead with its secret atomic program... ...He boasted that while talks were taking place in Tehran, Iran was able to complete the installation of equipment for conversion of yellowcake - a key stage in the nuclear fuel process - at its Isfahan plant while convincing European diplomats that nothing was afoot. "From the outset, the Americans kept telling the Europeans, 'The Iranians are lying and deceiving you and they have not told you everything'. The Europeans used to respond, 'We trust them'," he said.

Oh the Americans... Our saviors!! Come liberate the world from tyranny and oppression!!

Team America - World Police

-b0b
(...runs away.)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/20/060320195105.4089dcoq.html

Quote:

"The threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective to destroy our strong ally Israel. That's a threat, a serious threat. It's a threat to world peace," the US president said after a speech defending the war in Iraq. "I made it clear, and I'll make it clear again, that we will use military might to protect our ally Israel," said Bush, who was apparently referring to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's call for the destruction of Israel.

Quick way to get into a fight with Iran.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iranterror21mar21,0,6266532.story?coll=la-home-headlines


Quote:

Some officials, citing evidence from highly classified satellite feeds and electronic eavesdropping, believe the Iranian regime is playing host to much of Al Qaeda's remaining brain trust and allowing the senior operatives freedom to communicate and help plan the terrorist network's operations. And they suggest that recently elected President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may be forging an alliance with Al Qaeda operatives as a way to expand Iran's influence or, at a minimum, that he is looking the other way as Al Qaeda leaders in his country collaborate with their counterparts elsewhere.

Another fabricated way to get into a fight with Iran.

Wow, they're really digging for stuff now.

-b0b
(...counts down the days.)

How much money would it save the gov to deploy troops from Iraq to Iran rather than America to Iran.  That is one reason that our troops are still stationed in Iraq, incase of hostilities with Iran.  We could just travel next-door to Iran and sweep them too.

Stick wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2006 at 12:44pm:

How much money would it save the gov to deploy troops from Iraq to Iran rather than America to Iran.  That is one reason that our troops are still stationed in Iraq, incase of hostilities with Iran.  We could just travel next-door to Iran and sweep them too.

You don't really think the Bush administration really cares about something as trivial as cost, do you?  Congress just voted to raise the national debt limitation to 9 TRILLION dollars.  Cost?  Pfff!

-b0b
(...wonders where the fiscal conservatives are hiding?)

Just making sure ya'll are caught up.

Escalation:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=U0FGCWPXJOFD3QFIQMFSFFOAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/04/09/wbush09.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/09/ixnewstop.html


Quote:

The Bush administration is planning to use nuclear weapons against Iran, to prevent it acquiring its own atomic warheads, claims an investigative writer with high-level Pentagon and intelligence contacts. President George W Bush is said to be so alarmed by the threat of Iran's hard-line leader, Mahmoud Ahmedinejad, that privately he refers to him as "the new Hitler", says Seymour Hersh, who broke the story of the Abu Ghraib Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6664


Quote:

Tehran, Iran, Apr. 09 – Iran said on Sunday that it shot down an unmanned spy plane from Iraq in the south of the country. “This plane had lifted off from Iraq and was busy filming the border regions”, the semi-official daily Jomhouri Islami wrote. The plane’s structural markings and systems have given officials “information”, the report added, without elaborating. There have been reports that the United States has been secretly sending unmanned surveillance planes into Iran to gather intelligence about the country’s nuclear sites.

It's getting worse!!!

I give it till the end of the summer or early fall.

~BRiney

That first article you posted is a bit hard to swallow since the hypocrisy of the situation is so obsurred.

I saw the article on drudge and it was not highlighted in red, which means it might have little value of being true. maybe  :-/

It is absurd, but when you have Bush calling the Iranian president "the new Hitler," that means that in Bush's eyes, Iran would use the nukes for terrorism. America is all about using their nukes for "justice"... The hypocracy is just rediculous, but that is pretty much how America has been doing things since it was founded. Heres a modern example:

America sends out civil rights warnings every year to countries that it feels do not fit the standards that a democratic freedom-loving country should have. America also tortures prisoners, and says they wont stop. America is also the only industrial nation that will not sign the anti land-mine treaty, even though thousands of innocent people die from land-mines strewn about war torn countries. Hypocracy is just how we roll, because anything America does is automatically right, and everyone else must change to fit our view of the world.

It's actually pretty sickening.

~BRiney

...thus the twilight of another empire is signaled.

-b0b
(...nods sagely.)

I'm telling you....if women ruled the world.....ok. I admit it. We'd all probably be alot nastier. Then again, I don't see a woman really going into warfare as fast as a man would. But you never know. Quite frankly, I think its human nature to want power and even be a hypocrite about stuff.





my broken record player plays on.




                  cait

So you're saying that women don't like power and couldn't be corrupted?

Not sure what point you were making.

X
(Asking in all honesty)

I meant (and failed to say) that all people like power and are easily hypocritical/corrupted. Its really human nature.



      Cait
        (...sick of politics)

Oh dear, someone set us up the bomb.


Quote:

www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/11/D8GTUL906.html By ALI AKBAR DAREINI Associated Press Writer TEHRAN, Iran Iran has successfully enriched uranium for the first time, a landmark in its quest to develop nuclear fuel, hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tuesday. He insisted, however, that his country does not aim to develop nuclear weapons. In a nationally televised speech, Ahmadinejad called on the West "not to cause an everlasting hatred in the hearts of Iranians" by trying to force Iran to abandon uranium enrichment. "At this historic moment, with the blessings of God almighty and the efforts made by our scientists, I declare here that the laboratory- scale nuclear fuel cycle has been completed and young scientists produced enriched uranium needed to the degree for nuclear power plants Sunday," Ahmadinejad said. "I formally declare that Iran has joined the club of nuclear countries," he told an audience that included top military commanders and clerics in the northwestern holy city of Mashhad. The crowd broke into cheers of "Allahu akbar!" or "God is great!" Some stood and thrust their fists in the air. The U.N. Security Council has demanded that Iran stop all uranium enrichment activity by April 28. Iran has rejected the demand, saying it has a right to develop the process. The head of the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency, Mohamed ElBaradei, is due in Iran this week for talks to try to resolve the standoff. The White House denounced the latest comments from Iranian officials, with spokesman Scott McClellan saying they "continue to show that Iran is moving in the wrong direction." Ahmadinejad said Iran "relies on the sublime beliefs that lie within the Iranian and Islamic culture. Our nation does not get its strength from nuclear arsenals." He said Iran wanted to operate its nuclear program under supervision by the International Atomic Energy Agency and within its rights and regulations under the regulations of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Emphasis mine.

I bet Israel is just itching to bomb Iran back into the stone age.  Perhaps this will give them some added momentum toward achieving that desire?  

What none of news outlets are talking about is that Ahmadinejad is a confirmed believer that Armageddon is coming.  In Islam, this would be the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam.

From the Washington Post: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501428_pf.html

"When Ahmadinejad unexpectedly won the presidential elections, he immediately gave $17 million of government funds to the shrine (The more devout believers in Iran pray at the Jamkaran mosque, which houses a well from which, some believe, he (12th Imam) will emerge. Last month Ahmadinejad said publicly that the main mission of the Islamic Revolution is to pave the way for the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam."

Just like fundamentalist Christianity, the second coming will be accompanied by the usual trials, tribulations, death and destruction.  An Iranian journalist reported Ahmadinejad saying in official meetings that the hidden Imam will reappear in two years.

So a Holocaust-denying, virulently anti-Semitic, aspiring genocidist, on the verge of acquiring weapons of the apocalypse, believes that the end is not only near but nearer than the next American presidential election.  (Pity the Democrats. They just can't catch a break.)  This kind of man would have, to put it gently, less inhibition about starting Armageddon than a normal person.  Indeed, with millennial bliss pending, he would have positive incentive to, as they say in Jewish eschatology, "hasten the end."

-b0b
(...wonders what the going rate is on bomb shelters these days.)

In case you were wondering...

http://static.flickr.com/13/19663542_cb215da48f.jpg

(...Hans Bwix!  Oh no!)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060418/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians


Quote:

Israel - After Hamas defended a deadly suicide bombing Monday, Israel's U.N. ambassador warned that recent statements by the Palestinian government, Iran and Syria "are clear declarations of war, and I urge each and every one of you to listen carefully and take them at face value." Ambassador Dan Gillerman cautioned that a new "axis of terror" — Iran, Syria and the Hamas-run Palestinian government — was sowing the seeds of the first world war of the 21st century. "A dark cloud is looming above our region, and it is metastasizing as a result of the statements and actions by leaders of Iran, Syria, and the newly elected government of the Palestinian Authority," he said.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-04-18T151223Z_01_L17370115_RTRUKOC_0_US-NUCLEAR-IRAN.xml&rpc=22


Quote:

Asked if options included planning for a nuclear strike, Bush replied: "All options are on the table. We want to solve this issue diplomatically and we're working hard to do so."

http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/doc/20060509/769629_lettre.pdf

The entire letter that President Mahmoud Ahmadinajad sent to President Bush.

Briney, did you just link to a French site?  I tried to visit it, and the freakin' webserver surrendered before I even had a chance to load the thing.

-b0b
(...is kidding, of course.)

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=11fbf4a8-282a-4d18-954f-546709b1240f&k=32073


Quote:

Human rights groups are raising alarms over a new law passed by the Iranian parliament that would require the country's Jews and Christians to wear coloured badges to identify them and other religious minorities as non-Muslims. "This is reminiscent of the Holocaust," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. "Iran is moving closer and closer to the ideology of the Nazis."

Wow. now we have to attack them. I cannot how "perfect" of an enemy Iran is becoming.

Ya beat me to it, Briney.  They really are becoming "the perfect enemy."




Quote:

Iran eyes badges for Jews Law would require non-Muslim insignia Chris Wattie National Post Friday, May 19, 2006 Human rights groups are raising alarms over a new law passed by the Iranian parliament that would require the country's Jews and Christians to wear coloured badges to identify them and other religious minorities as non-Muslims. "This is reminiscent of the Holocaust," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. "Iran is moving closer and closer to the ideology of the Nazis." Iranian expatriates living in Canada yesterday confirmed reports that the Iranian parliament, called the Islamic Majlis, passed a law this week setting a dress code for all Iranians, requiring them to wear almost identical "standard Islamic garments." The law, which must still be approved by Iran's "Supreme Guide" Ali Khamenehi before being put into effect, also establishes special insignia to be worn by non-Muslims. Iran's roughly 25,000 Jews would have to sew a yellow strip of cloth on the front of their clothes, while Christians would wear red badges and Zoroastrians would be forced to wear blue cloth. "There's no reason to believe they won't pass this," said Rabbi Hier. "It will certainly pass unless there's some sort of international outcry over this." Bernie Farber, the chief executive of the Canadian Jewish Congress, said he was "stunned" by the measure. "We thought this had gone the way of the dodo bird, but clearly in Iran everything old and bad is new again," he said. "It's state-sponsored religious discrimination." Ali Behroozian, an Iranian exile living in Toronto, said the law could come into force as early as next year. It would make religious minorities immediately identifiable and allow Muslims to avoid contact with non-Muslims. Mr. Behroozian said it will make life even more difficult for Iran's small pockets of Jewish, Christian and other religious minorities -- the country is overwhelmingly Shi'ite Muslim. "They have all been persecuted for a while, but these new dress rules are going to make things worse for them," he said. The new law was drafted two years ago, but was stuck in the Iranian parliament until recently when it was revived at the behest of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. A spokesman for the Iranian Embassy in Ottawa refused to comment on the measures. "This is nothing to do with anything here," said a press secretary who identified himself as Mr. Gharmani. "We are not here to answer such questions." The Simon Wiesenthal Centre has written to Kofi Annan, the Secretary-General of the United Nations, protesting the Iranian law and calling on the international community to bring pressure on Iran to drop the measure. "The world should not ignore this," said Rabbi Hier. "The world ignored Hitler for many years -- he was dismissed as a demagogue, they said he'd never come to power -- and we were all wrong." Mr. Farber said Canada and other nations should take action to isolate Mr. Ahmadinejad in light of the new law, which he called "chilling," and his previous string of anti-Semitic statements. "There are some very frightening parallels here," he said. "It's time to start considering how we're going to deal with this person." Mr. Ahmadinejad has repeatedly described the Holocaust as a myth and earlier this year announced Iran would host a conference to re-examine the history of the Nazis' "Final Solution." He has caused international outrage by publicly calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map." Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons, but Tehran believed by Western nations to be developing its own nuclear military capability, in defiance of international protocols and peace treaties. The United States, France and Israel accuse Iran of using a civilian nuclear program to secretly build a weapon. Iran denies this, saying its program is confined to generating electricity.

-b0b
(...counts down the days.)

Conflicting reports.

http://www.940news.com/locale.php?news=2512


Quote:

The National Post is sending shockwaves across the country this morning with a report that Iran's Parliament has passed a law requiring mandatory Holocaust style badges to identify Jews and Christians. But independent reporter Meir Javedanfar, an Israeli Middle East expert who was born and raised in Tehran, says the report is false. "It's absolutely factually incorrect," he told The New 940 Montreal. "Nowhere in the law is there any talk of Jews and Christians having to wear different colours. I've checked it with sources both inside Iran and outside." "The Iranian people would never stand for it. The Iranian government wouldn't be stupid enough to do it." Political commentator and 940 Montreal host Beryl Waysman says the report is true, that the law was passed two years ago. "Jews should wear yellow strips, Christians red strips, because according to the Iranian mullahs, if a Mulsim shakes hands with a non-Muslim he becomes unclean."

Either way, someone is trying to start a war here.

Dude, I realize Iran is a secretive country, but if they passed a law two years ago, don't you think someone would know about it?

-b0b
(...thinks that commentator is an idiot.)

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0%2C5478%2C19198032%255E1702%2C00.html

some more on the subject

Quote:

AUSTRALIA, the US and Canada lost little time in blasting Iran for a report, quickly denied, that Tehran may force non-Muslims to wear coloured badges in public. While acknowledging they had no details beyond a report in a Canadian newspaper, the three countries went on the offensive in separate statements, with Washington and Ottawa evoking the atrocities of Nazi Germany. "If you did have such an occurrence, whether it was in Iran or elsewhere, it would certainly be despicable," US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in Washington. "I think it has clear echoes of Germany under Hitler."

Quote:

Maurice Motammed, a Jewish member of Iran's Parliament, dismissed the report as "a complete fabrication" and said: "It is a lie, and the people who invented it wanted to make political gain." Iran's conservative-dominated Parliament is debating a draft law that would discourage women from wearing Western clothing and increase taxes on imported clothes and fund an advertising campaign to encourage citizens to wear Islamic-style garments. A draft received preliminary approval last Sunday and Parliament debated it this week, but the bill has not been passed. In Tehran, MP Emad Afroogh, who sponsored the bill and chairs the parliament's cultural committee, said today there was no truth to the Canadian newspaper report. "It's a sheer lie. The rumours about this are worthless," he said. "The bill is not related to minorities. It is only about clothing," he said. "Please tell them (in the West) to check the details of the bill. There is no mention of religious minorities and their clothing in the bill," he said.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148077815559&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724



Quote:

The West has less than a year to block Iran's ambition to develop nuclear weapons before it touches off "hyper-proliferation" throughout the Middle East, says Israel's military intelligence chief. "The most important step for Iran is the first one — independent research and development capacity," said Maj.-Gen. Aharon Ze'evi. "They have already begun to enrich uranium, starting in January or February 2006. After that, it isn't important whether the first bomb is built in 2010 or 2015. The damage is done."

Isreal could start this whole thing off. They want the United States to do it, but in their eyes, we are dragging our feet with boring "diplomacy"

Let Israel start it.  Israel is the hand that rocks the cradle of the world.  Where they go, the world follows.

-b0b
(...wouldn't want to be in Iran right now.)

In an interview with SPIEGEL, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad discusses the Holocaust, the future of the state of Israel, mistakes made by the United States in Iraq and Tehran's nuclear conflict with the West.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html


Interesting read.

Also in the news, rhetoric is slowing down on Iran, and it looks as if the US might open talks directly with Iran. At least its being considered now. I think military planners / Bush and co. realize that they dont have the resources to go about another war. Maybe this whole thing will die down?

Quote:

Iranian drone plane buzzes U.S. aircraft carrier in Persian Gulf 19:06|30/ 05/ 2006 TEHRAN, May 30 (RIA Novosti) - A pilotless Iranian reconnaissance plane circled for 25 minutes over a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf before returning safely to its base, a senior Iranian official said Tuesday. "Our pilotless reconnaissance plane flew over the USS Ronald Reagan in the Persian Gulf unnoticed to the Americans for 25 minutes," the official said, according to Iran's Fars agency. He did not say when the flight took place, but added that U.S. radars picked up the unmanned aerial vehicle after 25 minutes, and that four USAF fighters and two helicopters were scrambled to intercept it. However, the Iranian plane had already crossed the border back into Iran and landed at its base. "This points to holes in the U.S. military reconnaissance systems deployed in the Persian Gulf," the Iranian official said.

That's the official Iranian take.  Here's the US counterpoint.



Quote:

June 02, 2006 Navy refutes Iran claim that UAV buzzed Reagan By Andrew Scutro Navy Times staff writer A news item that an Iranian unmanned aerial vehicle loitered over the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan in the Persian Gulf was refuted by Navy officials this week. “It was an erroneous report,” said Lt. Bashon Mann, a Navy spokesman at the Pentagon. On Thursday, a United Press International wire story cited a report from Azerbaijan’s Trend news agency quoting Iranian officials and Iranian news service claims that a pilotless drone flew over the Reagan for 25 minutes before descending back into Iran. The news item also claimed that the Reagan dispatched four fighter aircraft and two helicopters but the UAV got away. The report comes at a time of heightened international tensions over Iran’s ambitions to develop nuclear weapons. Mann said 5th Fleet officials in Bahrain “categorically denied” the event took place and “No planes were scrambled at all. That did not happen.” The Reagan is on her first deployment after being commissioned in 2003. Reagan relieved the carrier Theodore Roosevelt in the gulf in February. Reagan left the gulf on May 22 and is returning to San Diego. An anonymous Iranian official quoted in the wire story would not say when the UAV allegedly flew over Reagan.

-b0b
(...sounds awfully fishy to me.)

Does anyone else think it's hilarious that the ship was the REAGAN and the country was IRAN!!!

X
(Ha ha ha!)

I, too, noted the irony.

-b0b
(...loves commas.)

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150355504526&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull


Quote:

Iran's defense minister on Thursday vowed that his country would "use nuclear defense as a potential" if "threatened by any power."

What the heck does that mean?

I'll tell you what it means Brinedizzle...It means:

HEY I'M A GOVT OP THAT YOU PLACED INTO POWER!  I'M WORKING FOR YOU AND I WANT YOU TO TAKE OVER MY COUNTRY SO THAT THE ELLITE CAN HAVE MORE CONTROL OVER THE WORLD!  BUT SHHHH DON'T TELL THOSE PATRIOTS WHO SEE RIGHT THROUGH ME!  THEY KNOW TOO MUCH!  GOOD THING THE PUBLIC JUST THINKS THAT THEY'RE "CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!  KOO KOO....KOO KOO!

http://www.cs.unm.edu/~williams/joel/bullseye.o.jpg

X

ROFL  [smiley=ROFLMAO.gif]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060627/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear_7;_ylt=AoAGVmheLo43B3bVdc2o575Sw60A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl


Quote:

TEHRAN, Iran - Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Iran does "not need" talks with the United States over its nuclear program because nothing would be gained, state television reported Tuesday. Khamenei, who has the final word on all state matters, did not give his position on a package of incentives offered by the West to persuade Iran to impose a long-term moratorium on the enrichment of uranium. But he took a tough line on the final goal of the package: resuming negotiations that the United States hopes will persuade Iran to completely give up enrichment, a process that can produce fuel for nuclear generators or the material for nuclear warheads. "Negotiations with the United States would have no benefit for us, and we do not need them," state television quoted Khamenei as telling Senegalese President Abdoulaye Wade.

Well there ya go. That basically sounded like an answer to me. Hes totally right too, the US wouldn't back down on anything. Lets not forget here that Iran is legally allowed to do research for peaceful purposes. They are a signer of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty

Here is what the Treaty says:


Quote:

Affirming the principle that the benefits of peaceful applications of nuclear technology, including any technological by-products which may be derived by nuclear-weapon States from the development of nuclear explosive devices, should be available for peaceful purposes to all Parties to the Treaty, whether nuclear-weapon or non-nuclear-weapon States, Convinced that, in furtherance of this principle, all Parties to the Treaty are entitled to participate in the fullest possible exchange of scientific information for, and to contribute alone or in co-operation with other States to, the further development of the applications of atomic energy for peaceful purposes, Declaring their intention to achieve at the earliest possible date the cessation of the nuclear arms race and to undertake effective measures in the direction of nuclear disarmament,

Iran has always said that they are developing nuclear technology for peaceful purposes. The United States and allies are getting all worked up on the possibility that they will develop a weapon. India and Pakistan did so illegally, but we didn't care. Iran is enriching uranium to 3.5% which is just enough for a nuclear power plant.  To build a bomb, you need a 90% enrichment rate. Yea thats just not within their grasp at the moment. So good going, United States, have fun bombing another country for no reason. Oh wait, oil.

Can someone explain what the oil thing is about?  Are we just taking it while we are over there? to sell?  Why don't we just buy it, if that is why we are over there. thanks

Eric, please don't ask the government any tough questions.  Bush tends to get flustered when that happens, and he tends to blow up people that fluster him.

-b0b
(...would hate for something "unfortunate" to occur.)

Well those in power have a whole bunch of agendas regarding oil. And it is in our best interest, but theirs as well.

1.) oil is good, cause its refined into gas for our cars and other uses. The US has alot of refineries and the ability to convert oil into gas, but we dont have enough oil in our territory to supply ourselves with enough gas. So we need to pull it in from outside sources: the middle east. So theres a little supply and demand goin on.

2.) At the end of the last decade, people started theorizing that at some point oil would reach a point where the amount we can produce a day on earth will not meet the amount we consume in a day, creating a huge imbalance and surge in pricing. They called this Peak Oil, and the government buys into this theory. They wrote a document called the Plan for a New American Century, which mainly outlines how to make the US a 21st century military power. But it also outlines the need to secure oil for the US's growing oil consumption. And the only way to justify securing oil reserves in the Middle East would be if the US was hit by a "new Pearl Harbor." 9/11 happens and now we have taken over Afghanistan, Iraq, and are planning on Iran.

3.) The reason oil is such a big deal is these guys want to profit. Everyone is just making so much  freakin money off of oil, because our infrastructure depends on it! Planes, the semi trucks that ship all our goods, our own cars all need this oil. So those that supply it are constantly making money. It is said that there is still 100 trillion dollars of oil left in the earth, and those guys want to  make every penny of that.  And even more! Gas prices are just insane. Exxons profits for last year were almost $40 billion. That is unheard of, most companies dont have that kind of revenue, let alone pure profit.

So anyway when we invaded Iraq, the first thing we did was secure their oil fields. Then we allowed all of our oil companies to go in there, and manage the fields in the interest of the Iraqi people... of course they got a piece of the sales for their troubles. And now the US has guaranteed oil from there, in the event of a shortage.

Also, and I think Patrick can field this one... Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries or OPEC has alot of control over the world because they control the flow of oil. So, obviously thats no good for the US, so we have basically been taking down some big exporters of oil and securing them in the name of freedom for the US. the biggest exporter is Saudia Arabia, but hey, they are our allies... so we have some leverage to keep them selling to us at a good price.

Iran is not an ally and they are the 4th biggest exporter. By taking down their government and putting a US friendly one in place... the US will now have secured oil from places that werent to friendly to us.

Yea i dunno, i sorta rambled here, Patrick fill in some other stuff or correct me if im wrong.

I have to add just a few things.

PNAC's plan was not to combat Peak Oil but to create the panic.  Look at it this way.  What's the most basic economic system we know?  Supply and demand.  As supply goes up demand goes down.  Here as supply goes down supply goes up.  So these American oil companies are now controlling what used to be government (eg independent) oil places.  So in order for them to make more money they don't want to increase oil production...but turn off the spigot!  This is what's going on in Iraq right now.  Before, the Iraqis had their oil cheap (for lamps, cars, etc.) but now the oil corps "convinced" them that in the interest of the great regime of CAPITALISM *BA DUP BA DUUU* that it would be "in their best interests" not to subidize their oil for their own countrymen.  Now even more Iraqis are without power and oil.  Where is their oil that they would be using?  Still in the ground.  Because we've scared them with peak oil.  Not to mention they have the line "Well you can do what you want.....but we did kinda save you from a mad man....ha ha no not Bush!! Saddam!"

This plan has been talked about for over 100 years and it wasn't until now that it was put into action.  The plan calls for (and I can't remember the proper name for it) where we want to wrest control of the oil from the Middle East countries.  PNAC was a great jump start.

X

The name I couldn't remember is bulkanization.

It is when you fragment or divide a region into smaller regions that are often hostile or non-cooperative with each other.

War is profitable.  Just ask Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, and all the other members of the military industrial complex.

X
(Did that answer your question though?)

Yeah, I guess oil would be the best moneymaker/powerholder with its raising demand and (percieved?) shortening supply across the globe.

(...just realized we're a cynical bucnh hehe)